Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-02-2012, 08:39   #46
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 21
Re: Hull Deck Seam Damaged and I Need Help

Here are pics of the port chain plate with the rotted ceiling panel removed. The balsa core seemed in good shape. I stuck a knife into is and it appeared solid. This is good as far as an untrained eye can see[ATTACH]Click image for larger version

Name:	<a title=HULL DECK SEAM 032.jpg Views: 104 Size: 417.2 KB ID: 36906" style="margin: 2px" />[/ATTACH]
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	HULL DECK SEAM 030.jpg
Views:	92
Size:	431.9 KB
ID:	36905  
__________________

__________________
Karmacal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 10:39   #47
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,365
Re: Hull Deck Seam Damaged and I Need Help

Wow, she looks pretty nice inside! I can see why you're having trouble seeing the inside deck to hull joint. Try looking in the lazzarette or cockpit storage locker...
__________________

__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 10:50   #48
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,201
Images: 52
Re: Hull Deck Seam Damaged and I Need Help

Looks worth saving. I would be pretty sure the flange joint is glassed on the inside, I don't see any fasteners in the joint. Almost always means it's taped inside. But you need to find out for sure. Don't take any more interior apart than necessary, you should be able to do this job entirely from the exterior, unless the interior tape is blown out too. Which it could easily be. Don't forget to look for failed bulkhead tabbing as well. Try shining a strong light into the cracks from outside. Do you see glass inside or wood? If you glass it up from outside you either need to be sure the inside tape is good, or glass the whole exterior seam so no water can get in.
__________________
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 14:17   #49
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Hull Deck Seam Damaged and I Need Help

Nice looking boat I was expecting something a bit more basic - can see why you want to put some effort in to her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmacal View Post

pics of the rotted v-birth and port side water damage, I guess due to the damaged rubrail.
Actually that might have nothing to do with the rub rail damage - could well have been caused by a blocked (undersized?) drainage hole for the anchor locker, from freshwater - especially likely if deck has an anchor locker access hatch on deck, but even a chain pipe (forget the name for that ) can suck in enough freshwater over time to do that sort of damage. and once damp wood around the damage can spread, especially cosmetically. Ideally the drain hole will go overboard (if bottom of the locker above the waterline!), but might go into the bilge.

Will be a bit of a pig to replace mostly due to limited / awkward access, but perfectly DIYable - the only fly in the ointment is that it appears that you have a hull liner aft of the bulkhead, which I very much doubt unscrews (probably glued or glassed in).....that bulkhead would likely have been glassed in both sides, before the liner was fitted....... ideally would want to do the same, but I would hesitate before disturbing that hull liner.

Maybe others have views on only tabbing one side? or chop a couple of inches of liner off and then cover with some trim?

As already said, if you can access the hull seam without removing any panels then all the better - should be able to get head into the bow locker to have a looksee, or failing that at least the camera.

But nice to see that your chainplates are well secured (and not simply to the deck ).
__________________
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2012, 06:36   #50
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 21
Re: Hull Deck Seam Damaged and I Need Help

[ATTACH][ATTACH]Click image for larger version

Name:	seam 3.jpg
Views:	84
Size:	21.2 KB
ID:	37426[/ATTACH][/ATTACH]Viewing the starboard hull/deck seam from within the cockpit locker. Look glassed over and I can only assume this would continue all the way around. What do you say and think?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	seam 1.jpg
Views:	78
Size:	34.7 KB
ID:	37424   Click image for larger version

Name:	seam 2.jpg
Views:	81
Size:	23.0 KB
ID:	37425  

__________________
Karmacal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2012, 07:23   #51
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Hull Deck Seam Damaged and I Need Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmacal View Post
What do you say and think?
I think you should have turned the flash on .

But FWIW, it seems their is something from ALIEN III hiding on your boat. and it ain't Ripley .
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2012, 07:29   #52
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 21
Re: Hull Deck Seam Damaged and I Need Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
I think you should have turned the flash on .

But FWIW, it seems their is something from ALIEN III hiding on your boat. and it ain't Ripley .
Ha ha ha, see I know nothing(shultsy) If I turned the flash on then you could not see the sun shine though the seam. I will use FLASH next time, this weekend.
__________________
Karmacal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2012, 08:04   #53
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Hull Deck Seam Damaged and I Need Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmacal View Post
Ha ha ha, see I know nothing(shultsy) If I turned the flash on then you could not see the sun shine though the seam. I will use FLASH next time, this weekend.
Fair enough .

FWIW, I wouldn't be too worried about simply being able to see daylight through the fibreglass, that would be fairly normal (depends on how the boat was built / how thick the fibreglass is / what covered with)....what would be more of a concern is seeing daylight through fresh air! (but even that is not a complete disaster)......probably not very clear from my previous posts.

But from my close peer at the pics, it seems that it's the former - really more interested in seeing how the hull / deck is joined together (or not ). The good news is that you have a good idea where the Hull / deck join is.


Before firing the flash, might be a good idea to poke around in there with a stick. A pointy stick . and if you later suffer from chest pains......yer on yer own .
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2012, 22:03   #54
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 21
Re: Hull Deck Seam Damaged and I Need Help

Click image for larger version

Name:	Dungeness and the Brat 235.jpg
Views:	79
Size:	423.6 KB
ID:	37915Click image for larger version

Name:	Dungeness and the Brat 236.jpg
Views:	81
Size:	419.7 KB
ID:	37916Click image for larger version

Name:	Dungeness and the Brat 237.jpg
Views:	69
Size:	418.7 KB
ID:	37917Click image for larger version

Name:	Dungeness and the Brat 238.jpg
Views:	71
Size:	437.9 KB
ID:	37918Click image for larger version

Name:	Dungeness and the Brat 234.jpg
Views:	71
Size:	414.3 KB
ID:	37919Click image for larger version

Name:	Dungeness and the Brat 230.jpg
Views:	82
Size:	441.9 KB
ID:	37920
I hope these pictures shed some light on what I am dealing with. I see nothing to b worried about. I know ignorance is bliss and this is what I am trying to save.
Click image for larger version

Name:	Dungeness and the Brat 240.jpg
Views:	75
Size:	408.9 KB
ID:	37921Click image for larger version

Name:	Dungeness and the Brat 241.jpg
Views:	77
Size:	413.3 KB
ID:	37922Click image for larger version

Name:	Dungeness and the Brat 242.jpg
Views:	72
Size:	415.7 KB
ID:	37923
__________________
Karmacal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2012, 22:11   #55
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
To me it looks like the interior coating (paint?) has been worn off. Any interior panels attached in this area?

With the coating removed it is disconcerting but maybe normal to see light through the translucent fiberglass. If you can assure yourself there is no fiberglass thickness loss you may just clean and refinish the interior walls.

Sorry if I am off base as I hadn't read the whole thread.

BTW the delamination of the ply on the forward door looks like most of my 30 y/o interior. Interior job starts this year :-(
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2012, 03:36   #56
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Hull Deck Seam Damaged and I Need Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmacal View Post
I hope these pictures shed some light on what I am dealing with. I see nothing to b worried about. I know ignorance is bliss and this is what I am trying to save.
Short Answer = All looks good to me .

Long answer = My reading is that the hull inside was coated with some sort of paint - probably something "anti-condensation" (back in the 70's etc that very much in vogue) which doubled as simply tidying things up (for a time when many prospective owners did look in all the nooks and crannies - rather than just in the brochure ).

Obviously that coating no longer in showroom condition - but nothing to worry about, especially as probably didn't do much of a job on anti-condensation even when new! The fussy amongst us may want to slap some paint (bilge paint?) on, but as out of sight then not needed.....unless she smells a bit mouldy, then the answer is a good scrub and maybe then some paint (the plus to that is makes it easier to spot any leaks or anything else that has changed).

The daylight shining through is likely just where the paint (and rub rail / rubbing strake) has fallen off , but IMO that not anything to worry about as the deck appears to be attached to the hull on the inside (and not just via the external rubbing strake) - and from what I can see has been done pretty well (with no gelcoat or paint on Fibreglass is fairly translucent, indeed I have a couple of hatches on mine made out of solid fibreglass, a bit over an 1/8th of an inch thick - and can be stood on - where the centre of the panel has been left unpainted (and with no gelcoat) to allow light in down below, from above the hatch looks solid but from down below lets in a surprising amount of light.

What that means is whatever you do on the outside is not really structural , which gives you some leeway so that your "fix" is mostly about ensuring that the rubbing strake doesn't simply fall off. ideally when also used as a bumper - but that more on the wish list rather than a strict requirement! (just avoid bumping into stuff ).

Indeed, a few nice touchs on the boat that suggest to me that the builders put some thought into her build rather than just banging out the cheapest design they possibly could - that probably means that the company has long since gone broke . But if I was being hyper critical, would suggest that some of those deck fittings should have backing plates rather than just nuts and washers under the deck - but if they don't leak and given the age of the vessel I would leave well alone. Certainly that chain plate to the bulkhead has not been skimped on .


Oh, and just to say to anyone else (?!) reading this thread - although I seem to have adopted this boat (Kidnapped this thread? ) am happy enough for others to chip in - despite appearances to the contrary (on this thread and others) I don't in fact know everything about everything .....perhaps something for OP to also bear in mind .
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2012, 03:54   #57
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Hull Deck Seam Damaged and I Need Help

Translucent fibreglass forehatch (all sisterships to mine):-









Translucent fibreglass hatches - very much a 1960's thing .
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2012, 10:32   #58
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,365
Re: Hull Deck Seam Damaged and I Need Help

looks like she is glassed together inside well. The outside being cosmetic at this point....
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-2012, 12:02   #59
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 21
Re: Hull Deck Seam Damaged and I Need Help

Thank you all for your positive feedback. We will be taking her out of the water either mid March or mid April, depending on cash on hand and performing the work. I will take pics or our progress.
__________________
Karmacal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-2012, 12:42   #60
Registered User
 
SabreKai's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada on Lake Ontario
Boat: Roberts Offshore 38
Posts: 1,287
Images: 5
Re: Hull Deck Seam Damaged and I Need Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
Nice looking boat I was expecting something a bit more basic - can see why you want to put some effort in to her.

http://cdn.cruisersforum.com/forums/...2&d=1328369569



Actually that might have nothing to do with the rub rail damage - could well have been caused by a blocked (undersized?) drainage hole for the anchor locker, from freshwater - especially likely if deck has an anchor locker access hatch on deck, but even a chain pipe (forget the name for that ) can suck in enough freshwater over time to do that sort of damage. and once damp wood around the damage can spread, especially cosmetically. Ideally the drain hole will go overboard (if bottom of the locker above the waterline!), but might go into the bilge.

Will be a bit of a pig to replace mostly due to limited / awkward access, but perfectly DIYable - the only fly in the ointment is that it appears that you have a hull liner aft of the bulkhead, which I very much doubt unscrews (probably glued or glassed in).....that bulkhead would likely have been glassed in both sides, before the liner was fitted....... ideally would want to do the same, but I would hesitate before disturbing that hull liner.

Maybe others have views on only tabbing one side? or chop a couple of inches of liner off and then cover with some trim?

As already said, if you can access the hull seam without removing any panels then all the better - should be able to get head into the bow locker to have a looksee, or failing that at least the camera.

But nice to see that your chainplates are well secured (and not simply to the deck ).
Ok I had a similar problem with the cable locker bulkhead on my Grampian 26. First thing you need to do is stick your head into the cable locker and then look at the sides to see if its glassed in or not. In my case, the Grampian had a drop in fibreglass shell which did the Vee berth and the sides of the compartment up to about a foot below the hull-deck joint. There was a 1 1/2 inch lip along the top edges and around the front edges. That lip was where the two shelves that ran the full length of the Vee berth. The cable locker bulkhead was dropped into place after the shell was installed, and then screwed to the lip along the forward edges on the shell. It was not glassed in, nor was it structural. I ended cutting the bulkhead in half vertically, and pulling it out. I then made up a new one in two pieces, port and starboard, and fit them in place. Once they were screwed in place, I took a 2 inch wide piece of teak trim, and used that to mark the two halves at the split between them, and pulled out them out again. I then cleaned up the gap by tacking the two pieces 2 inches apart and cutting the gap to a uniform 1 inch wide. Then I took the teak strip, put a 1 inch wide back strip on it, reinstalled the bulkhead halves and inserted the teak trim strip.

Getting the top contour was a tad tricky because there isn't enough room forward of the bulkhead in the locker so you can pivot the piece to vertical and get a tight fit. I ended up making up a curved top piece that fit the contour of the underside of the deck, and then screwing it to the top of the bulkhead.

If it turns out that your bulkhead is glassed in place, (looks like it is) grinding out the fillet on the forward side, and using a fein multitool to cut out the bulkhead from the backside, should allow you to use the left overs as a pattern of the bulkhead. But if the material left after you cut is rotten then you will have to remove it, and do something like what I did.

Be sure to wipe the inside of the locker with some fungicide before you stick your gourd in there, it looks positively nasty with mold.
__________________

__________________
SabreKai
SV Sabre Dance, Roberts Offshore 38
http://sabredancing.wordpress.com/
SabreKai is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:14.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.