Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-12-2011, 13:41   #1
Registered User
 
glhotka's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Boat: 51' Formosa Cutter Rigged Ketch
Posts: 50
How to Treat a Wooden Shelf I'm Building in the Engine Room

I have a 43' Gulfstar sailboat and want to organize the engine room. The bilge pump is located on a small wooden shelf that is rotting on the edges. I want to build a nice set of shelves to mount the bilge pumps as well as the rear heads shower pump. My intent is to build this out of wood, but the question is what should I treat it with. It will likely be made of red oak 3/4 inch stock and assembled in my workshop then taken to the boat for mounting.
I was thinking of just painting it, but realize that won't protect the wood.
Can I paint it in epoxy? Can I paint it in fiberglass resin without the mat?

What would you recommend and what have you found works best?

Thanks in advance for the thoughts.
__________________

__________________
Gil and Debbie Lhotka
S/V Dream Chaser (51' Formosa Cutter Rigged Ketch)
S/V Last Affair (43' Gulfstar Sloop) - For Sale as we moved up to our dream boat.
glhotka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 14:07   #2
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 4,332
Has anyone on this forum tried glycol/borate treatments?

I first read about it for totem poles; I was involved in a totem pole project, researched this subject on the net, and found this:
Protecting woodwork against decay at Sitaka National Historical Park (1993) - Preservapedia
We cooked up the glycol/borate mixture, painted it on repeatadly and heavily, and let dry for a number of days. We then painted the stump with left over marine bottom paint, to provide additional bug protection. It was a great success; that was 8 years ago, and the stumps of the trees we cut are nearly gone, but the totem poles are still hard and undamaged (we dug down a bit and inspected them this summer).

Gougeon Brothers (leaders in the boat/epoxy business) have this to say:
The Effect of Ethylene Glycol and Sodium Borate Solutions on the Adhesion of Epoxy to White Oak and White Pine Samples.
Basically, it can reduce adhesion if the surface is not dry first, which is challenging, since glycol dries very slowly. However, we did not have paint adhesion problems (we did wipe the surface with a fresh water rag to remove glycol from the surface). I suspect the low adhesion (only on the oak) was an artifact of the test method, as others have not reported this.

Alternatively, I bet a pressure treated shelf would work fine, and would last and last. Just not fancy looking, so we don't consider it. Pressure treated wood is not generally seen on boats because it isn't as strong as other things and looks like hell, but it is also quite practical at times. My last boat had some parts in the centerboard hold down that I came to consider sacrificial, and I finally learned that nicely finished oak was a total waste of time. This may be one of those times.

______

The glycol/borate preservative is commercially available, but home brew is dead simple: 70% ethylene glycol antifreeze (concentrate, not 50/50, and get the traditional green sort if you can--it has a borate-based chemistry, and don't use pink PG antifreeze), 30% borax. Heat the glycol on the stove until boiling gently, then slowly add borax until it will hold no more. Do not let the temperature excede 265F (candy thermo) and keep the vent on (it does not stink, but the fumes are potentially dangerous)
__________________

__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing

Writing full-time since 2014.
Bookstore:http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/20...ook-store.html
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 14:22   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: 5 Mile River
Boat: Bristol 41.1 Keep on Dancin'
Posts: 536
Re: How to treat a wooden shelf i am building in engine room

I wouldn't use oak, it is a hard wood, and putting screws into it will be a pain in the butt. You will be forever cursing it everytime a screw breaks off. I would use a good grade of 5-7 layer veneer plywood, and epoxy coat it. A simple pilot hole wood make installing screws easy, but they would hold.
__________________
keepondancin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 14:35   #4
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Re: How to treat a wooden shelf i am building in engine room

I would use a plastic wood like King Starboard.

cheers,
Nick.
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 14:36   #5
Registered User
 
cburger's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nyack, NY
Boat: Westsail 32
Posts: 1,547
Images: 1
Re: How to treat a wooden shelf i am building in engine room

Red oak is prone to rot, if you have the choice use white oak. A couple of coats of epoxy will protect the wood just fine, be sure to saturate the end grain really well.
__________________
"All men are created equal, some are just more equal than others"
cburger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 14:47   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NY-FL
Boat: Sold
Posts: 291
Re: How to treat a wooden shelf i am building in engine room

Quote:
Originally Posted by keepondancin View Post
I wouldn't use oak, it is a hard wood, and putting screws into it will be a pain in the butt. You will be forever cursing it everytime a screw breaks off. I would use a good grade of 5-7 layer veneer plywood, and epoxy coat it. A simple pilot hole wood make installing screws easy, but they would hold.
Agree
__________________
Jimbo2010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 14:54   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The Maritimes
Boat: 1980 CheoyLee35
Posts: 178
Re: How to treat a wooden shelf i am building in engine room

If they are not going to be epoxied to anything else, I'd go to Walmart or similar and buy a cheap plastic cutting board. Cut it to size, screw on your pumps, set in bilge area. No rot, easy to clean, and, I repeat, cheap. On to the next job!
__________________
Shoalcove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 14:56   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: vancouver, canada
Boat: hunter 31
Posts: 609
Re: How to treat a wooden shelf i am building in engine room

All good suggestions. Putting screws into oak is fine if you drill the pilot hole properly. For longer screws, an old trick is to use a bar of soap to wax the threads of the screw before turning it in.
Plywood can be a good choice, but edge grain won't hold a screw as well as solid wood.
As posted, epoxy can seal wood well, but ideally, it should be "penetrating" epoxy, which is thinner, and will penetrate further, particularly on edge grain.
__________________
shorebird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 17:22   #9
Registered User
 
glhotka's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Boat: 51' Formosa Cutter Rigged Ketch
Posts: 50
Thanks for the great suggestions. I may go the marine ply route (but starboard/cutting board may be a good option for a smaller project). When you say penetrating epoxy, is there any specific brand I should look for or is this something I can get from a local hardware store? I figure if I can get it at a hardware store over a marine store I will save at least half the cost.
__________________
Gil and Debbie Lhotka
S/V Dream Chaser (51' Formosa Cutter Rigged Ketch)
S/V Last Affair (43' Gulfstar Sloop) - For Sale as we moved up to our dream boat.
glhotka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 18:00   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NY-FL
Boat: Sold
Posts: 291
Re: How to Treat a Wooden Shelf I'm Building in the Engine Room

You don't need marine ply, exterior is fine.
__________________
Jimbo2010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 18:14   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: New Jersey
Boat: Irwin 27
Posts: 6
Look into MAS epoxy.
__________________
irwin27destiny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 18:19   #12
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,352
Re: How to Treat a Wooden Shelf I'm Building in the Engine Room

good plywood is often easier to work with. any paint will do, it should out live you in the engine room!
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 18:30   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: 5 Mile River
Boat: Bristol 41.1 Keep on Dancin'
Posts: 536
Re: How to Treat a Wooden Shelf I'm Building in the Engine Room

Just watch the quality of the plywood. There is a lot of chinese plywood around, and is worse than substandard. Delaminates, filled with voids, lacks glue, etc. Stay away from homecenters, they have a lot of it. If there any wood fabrication businesses around,like cabinet shop, boat builder or repair, even a carpenter or handyman, ask them for scraps. Coffee and an egg sandwich goes a long way. If you are going to do anymore boat projects, it wouldn't hurt to buy a small amount of West, or MAS epoxies, with pumps, so you get the correct metering. Might even be how you mount the shelves in the engine compartment. Doesn't go bad, and you may wind up finding more uses. West System Epoxy web sight has downloads on using West epoxy. Pretty much all the epoxies work the same.
__________________
keepondancin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 19:51   #14
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 4,332
Re: How to Treat a Wooden Shelf I'm Building in the Engine Room

Quote:
Originally Posted by keepondancin View Post
Just watch the quality of the plywood.
A quick test for waterproof glues is to leave a scrap in boiling water for 30 minutes; if it doesn't laminate, you're good for this sort of purpose.
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing

Writing full-time since 2014.
Bookstore:http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/20...ook-store.html
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 21:04   #15
Registered User
 
S/V Alchemy's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto
Boat: Custom 41' Steel Pilothouse Cutter
Posts: 4,575
Re: How to treat a wooden shelf i am building in engine room

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
I would use a plastic wood like King Starboard.

cheers,
Nick.
I would use the same HDPE sheet I use for mounting half the stuff in my steel boat. It melts at a higher temperature than wood burns, and doesn't otherwise rot. You can use a hole drill to reduce its weight, and just through-bolt anything you want to it.

Starboard's pretty much identical. So are the "cutting boards" you can buy for a few bucks at surplus stores.

Wood is great for battens in the saloon and the surround for the head. Otherwise, it's a pain on a boat as far as I'm concerned, and I resort to it rarely.
__________________

__________________
S/V Alchemy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
engine

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Right Way to Run a Diesel off-the-grid Engines and Propulsion Systems 80 09-12-2012 19:06
Stinking Engine Room andreshs1 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 22 04-10-2011 21:00
Engine Room Sound Insulation Beersmith Construction, Maintenance & Refit 8 25-09-2011 12:34
Stalling Universal 5424 Engine ryderstk Engines and Propulsion Systems 13 27-07-2011 10:20
GFCI Outlet in an Engine Room in a Sealed Metal Box with Watertight Cover ? sdowney717 Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 16 18-07-2011 18:14



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:59.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.