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Old 26-03-2015, 13:21   #31
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Re: How To Replace These Screws?

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
EZ-Outs, for me, tend to break more often than work. There are different brands and types, but that's also not going to be a fast way to do many screws. Or cheap, if they keep breaking or dulling. If the screws are a soft metal, not stainless, it could be worth trying.
How about they break 98% of the time. If it's a screw or bolt frozen into a metal part I will no longer, ever use EZ-Outs. Hate'em. And when (not if) they break they're a real pain to drill out. Only things I found that work reasonably well is a tungsten carbide grinder tip or a diamond grinder.

Such a pain I started a thread on EZ Outs a while back. Got a lot of agreements on the subject.
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Old 26-03-2015, 13:36   #32
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Re: How To Replace These Screws?

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
I thought about sex bolts since some of my ports are installed with them but dismissed the idea. But I also looked a little closer at the second photo and looks like the remnants to me as well.

And yes I see a lot of them that are made of mild steel or mix aluminum female with steel or SS male parts, which could cause the corrosion.

So yes look on the inside of the boat to see if you find the other side of a sex bolt. All SS ones are really hard to find and expensive if you do.
https://www.boltdepot.com/Sex_bolts_...d%29.aspx?nv=l
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Old 26-03-2015, 13:43   #33
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Re: How To Replace These Screws?

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
How about they break 98% of the time. If it's a screw or bolt frozen into a metal part I will no longer, ever use EZ-Outs. Hate'em. And when (not if) they break they're a real pain to drill out. Only things I found that work reasonably well is a tungsten carbide grinder tip or a diamond grinder.

Such a pain I started a thread on EZ Outs a while back. Got a lot of agreements on the subject.
I suggested easy outs because they have worked well for me in the past. Certainly it depends on the situation, how badly stuck the screws are, access, and the ability to drill the hole correctly in the first place.

This technique is inexpensive and does no damage to the plastic or the fiberglass and requires no disassembly. Obviously, if it does not work, it's time for more drastic measures.
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Old 26-03-2015, 14:28   #34
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Re: How To Replace These Screws?

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
I suggested easy outs because they have worked well for me in the past. Certainly it depends on the situation, how badly stuck the screws are, access, and the ability to drill the hole correctly in the first place.

This technique is inexpensive and does no damage to the plastic or the fiberglass and requires no disassembly. Obviously, if it does not work, it's time for more drastic measures.
Wood, plastic, fiberglass I think EZ-Outs are an excellent option and I will not hesitate to use them.

Where I have almost zero success is using them on anything in metal. Like removing SS bolts corroded into aluminum hatch frames, steel bolts rusted into the engine block.

Anything corroded into metal my success rate with EZ-Outs is about 1% and I have a box full of broken off EZ-Out stubs to prove it.

And by the way, I do start with soaking the part with PB Blaster, heating and beating first and still don't do well.
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Old 26-03-2015, 14:31   #35
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Re: How To Replace These Screws?

The best way to remove intact screws and bolts, that are stuck in metal by a corrosion joint, is with an impact driver. I've had lots of luck with this kind that you hit with a lump hammer :

http://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-2905-8-...=impact+driver

The shock breaks the corrosion.
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Old 26-03-2015, 14:42   #36
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Re: How To Replace These Screws?

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Originally Posted by deblen View Post
OK, the pain is coming back to me. It wasn't sex bolts per se that was a problem it was finding sex bolts with a flathead on both sides and in SS.
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Old 26-03-2015, 14:49   #37
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Re: How To Replace These Screws?

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The best way to remove intact screws and bolts, that are stuck in metal by a corrosion joint, is with an impact driver. I've had lots of luck with this kind that you hit with a lump hammer :

http://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-2905-8-...=impact+driver

The shock breaks the corrosion.
You are the second person to suggest this, but the OP mentioned that the head broke off the screw in the photo with just finger pressure. All an impact driver will do is break the rest of the heads off.
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Old 26-03-2015, 16:23   #38
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Re: How To Replace These Screws?

Yeesh, I gave the right answer in the second or third post. Just peel back the rubber, then there'll be at least an 1/8" of screw shank exposed. Grab it with a regular vice grip, NOT a needle nose, and spin it out. Grip it end on, and any scratches you leave in the finish will be covered by the seal when it's reinstalled. If it snaps off in the vice grips, it's too corroded for any method to work other than Atoll's cutting out method. Done countless thousands of corroded fasteners, no point making it more complicated than necessary. Unless it's a sex bolt; then I'd redesign to use something else. You just need to be physically strong enough to close the grips on it really, really tight. Be careful though, you can just crush the screw shank if you are built like a bear, like me!
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Old 27-03-2015, 07:19   #39
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Re: How To Replace These Screws?

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
OK, the pain is coming back to me. It wasn't sex bolts per se that was a problem it was finding sex bolts with a flathead on both sides and in SS.
In this case, flat head Tube Nuts/Fasteners (or "Sex Bolts") can be obtained from Jeanneau and likely from the spare parts department of the builder of the OP's boat. There are several other fastener suppliers that can provide the bolts as well but it is the diameter of the holes in the windows/frames and their depth that dictates which size bolts one needs and the frame material, which metal is preferable (most often Aluminum on French Boats). One can, in theory, adapt unmatched tube nuts but it takes a major effort and risks fracturing the window material. Note to that to ensure the greatest possibility of the bolts remaining water-tight for an extended period, the Tube-Nut should be inserted from the exterior face of the frames with a layer of sealing material applied to the tubes.

FWIW...
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Old 31-05-2015, 08:52   #40
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Re: How To Replace These Screws?

Believe it or not, I got the three rusting screws out using a Ryobi tool (like a Dremyl), a combination of diamond-tipped Dremyl bits and Dewalt cobalt bits, and a very tiny "easy out". As suggested, the metal was hard on bits, but it all worked. The saving grace might have been the bedding or holding of the screws, which didn't seem that strong.

Thanks for the ideas and knowledge transfer.
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Old 31-05-2015, 11:21   #41
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Re: How To Replace These Screws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonosailor View Post
Believe it or not, I got the three rusting screws out using a Ryobi tool (like a Dremyl), a combination of diamond-tipped Dremyl bits and Dewalt cobalt bits, and a very tiny "easy out". As suggested, the metal was hard on bits, but it all worked. The saving grace might have been the bedding or holding of the screws, which didn't seem that strong.

Thanks for the ideas and knowledge transfer.
Congratulations.

I have to say, for me getting a stuck or broken screw out of something is very satisfying.
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Old 31-05-2015, 12:32   #42
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Re: How To Replace These Screws?

Other than using quality SS screws, the best way to prevent corrosion is to coat the screws with lanolin or some equal anti-corrosion paste before screwing in.
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Old 31-05-2015, 14:42   #43
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Re: How To Replace These Screws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Yeesh, I gave the right answer in the second or third post. Just peel back the rubber, then there'll be at least an 1/8" of screw shank exposed. Grab it with a regular vice grip, NOT a needle nose, and spin it out. Grip it end on, and any scratches you leave in the finish will be covered by the seal when it's reinstalled. If it snaps off in the vice grips, it's too corroded for any method to work other than Atoll's cutting out method. Done countless thousands of corroded fasteners, no point making it more complicated than necessary. Unless it's a sex bolt; then I'd redesign to use something else. You just need to be physically strong enough to close the grips on it really, really tight. Be careful though, you can just crush the screw shank if you are built like a bear, like me!
Minaret, I don't see how one can grip the shank of the screw when it has broken below the surface level of the glazing. Maybe I'm missing something here??

And for all you pundits advocating center-drilling and ezi-outing... drilling into what appears to be about a number 8 screw that is work-hardened from rolling in the threads has a pretty poor chance IME, followed by the well documented failure rate of ezi-outing. Pretty damn iffy! And welding an extension onto the shank in the confines of a slightly larger hole in Lexan or other plastic without damaging said plastic... fantasy! And beating on the screws with an impact driver (the ones that have intact heads)... pounding on a foam sandwich structure at the edge of a big hole (this is a big window) isn't going to do much other than flex and possibly damage the laminate, all while breaking down the so-far intact seal between glazing and hull.

Most of the techniques offered up will work in some situation or another, but this specific case rules them out. I hope that the OP realizes that!

Jim

PS And there has been some pretty silly metallurgy advice offered up, too!
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Old 31-05-2015, 15:55   #44
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Re: How To Replace These Screws?

I sure learned a few new techniques here. The pilot tube guide one is good. I've already ordered a set of the diamond hole saws, I see some other uses for those, and I'm glad to see my personal most used method also works. I have used Dremel cut off discs many, many times to cut a slot in a broken screw and then using a flat bladed screwdriver to remove it. I think the vibration and heat of the Dremel cutting action help loosen it. Use the fiber-reinforced discs, the hard ones are brittle.

If you don't want to have the Dremel disc cut into the material adjacent to the screw, there's a technique I've used on that a couple times. You first find or make a small diameter Dremel disc by using an old one or just grinding one down until it's small diameter. This will help keep damage to the surrounding material minimal, although it slows things up to cut wih the smaller disc.

Then sacrifice a flat bladed screw driver by grinding the corners off in a radius to fit the slot. Basically you just customize the screwdriver to the concave slot. IF that makes any sense.

I usually grab the shaft of the screwdriver with Vise Grips or a small crescent wrench right on the flat blade itself. Then really lean on the screwdriver handle while using the lever to turn it. Don't let it slip.
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Old 31-05-2015, 18:02   #45
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Re: How To Replace These Screws?

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Minaret, I don't see how one can grip the shank of the screw when it has broken below the surface level of the glazing. Maybe I'm missing something here??

And for all you pundits advocating center-drilling and ezi-outing... drilling into what appears to be about a number 8 screw that is work-hardened from rolling in the threads has a pretty poor chance IME, followed by the well documented failure rate of ezi-outing. Pretty damn iffy! And welding an extension onto the shank in the confines of a slightly larger hole in Lexan or other plastic without damaging said plastic... fantasy! And beating on the screws with an impact driver (the ones that have intact heads)... pounding on a foam sandwich structure at the edge of a big hole (this is a big window) isn't going to do much other than flex and possibly damage the laminate, all while breaking down the so-far intact seal between glazing and hull.

Most of the techniques offered up will work in some situation or another, but this specific case rules them out. I hope that the OP realizes that!

Jim

PS And there has been some pretty silly metallurgy advice offered up, too!


Looks to me like the screw is broken off flush with the black rubber seal. Pull that off and you should have a good fat 1/8" of shank to grab with the vice grip. To each their own!
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