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Old 03-12-2015, 16:44   #31
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Re: How to - Making a cockpit dining table

Ebony makassar was cut some 40years ago and bought by importer at a time it was legal, I presume
As to my first line, sometimes irony is too thin to be seen!? Okay...
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Old 03-12-2015, 19:00   #32
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Re: How to - Making a cockpit dining table

I've attached a picture of a building you might not be familiar with. It's a picture of the Hungarian Parliment Building. What do you think? Pretty cool right?

The style is largely gothic revival. Like a lot of architectural styles, gothic revival attempts to elevate the traditional class and order of something old and established by adding something new in an effort to create something better than ever had existed before.

For someone like me, who has basically devoted his whole entire life to making objects of functional utility that are also beautiful and accessible, this building represents an example of what is possible and achievable to those who are committed. It is an inspiration. A thing of excellence to aspire to.

To someone like me, red oak on a boat is sacrilege. I won't apologize for expressing my feelings on the matter. I know far too many dead people to disrespect the living by being insincere.
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Old 03-12-2015, 23:38   #33
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Re: How to - Making a cockpit dining table

I'm a bit of an amateur woodworker and have built many things during my lifetime, including chairs I've designed myself (one of hte most difficult things to design and build).

That table is a great job and seeing the steps taken it shows true craftmanship. Bending wood is a PITA unless you have the proper equipment and building your own equipment is also a PITA.

RE: the red oak. Delancy is correct that it is one of the less desirable woods to use in a marine environment. But if properly encapsulated with 8-10 layers of varnish and used on a table where, as someone noted, the greatest danger of damage is someone spilling their drink, it will last.

Nice job on the compass rose - they are not easy to get right (I know I've done several times)
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Old 04-12-2015, 06:05   #34
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Re: How to - Making a cockpit dining table

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Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
Yeah well, looks nice but this is CF and someone has to be all negative so I guess I will step up to the plate and be that guy.

Red oak is like the worst. I really mean it. Terrible rot resistance and smells like ass when you cut it. Has no place on a boat. White oak on the other hand is a different story.

If this was like a crappy 22 footer and you were some kind of dirt bag hippy freegan and red oak was all you could score from the local dumpster I would be like rock on.

But this is for some kind of fancy expensive catamaran so I am like fail. You devalue you boat with a poor material selection. Red oak is only good for residential flooring for cheapskates with no taste.

Does look pretty though, so I'll give you that.

Wow Delancey, Tell us how you feel. I fail to see how a salon table in a catamaran is going to rot. It's not rolling around in the bilge or subject to the type of constant moisture that rots wood. Plus it has a finish on it. Your way off base. It's liked you got ra... I mean beat up with a piece of red oak in some past life. Relax it's just wood man

Excellent post, thanks for the details


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Old 04-12-2015, 06:20   #35
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Re: How to - Making a cockpit dining table

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Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
Yeah well, looks nice but this is CF and someone has to be all negative so I guess I will step up to the plate and be that guy.

Red oak is like the worst. I really mean it. Terrible rot resistance and smells like ass when you cut it. Has no place on a boat. White oak on the other hand is a different story.

If this was like a crappy 22 footer and you were some kind of dirt bag hippy freegan and red oak was all you could score from the local dumpster I would be like rock on.

But this is for some kind of fancy expensive catamaran so I am like fail. You devalue you boat with a poor material selection. Red oak is only good for residential flooring for cheapskates with no taste.

Does look pretty though, so I'll give you that.
Why soften the blow so much.Just tell it as it is.
My own " know nothing " opinion is that it's well done indeed
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Old 04-12-2015, 06:24   #36
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Re: How to - Making a cockpit dining table

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Wow Delancey, Tell us how you feel. I fail to see how a salon table in a catamaran is going to rot. It's not rolling around in the bilge or subject to the type of constant moisture that rots wood. Plus it has a finish on it. Your way off base. It's liked you got ra... I mean beat up with a piece of red oak in some past life. Relax it's just wood man

Excellent post, thanks for the details


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Am I missing something? Is there some kind of forum rule that states that everyone has to agree with everyone else all the time and dissent is prohibited?

That is funny because as far as I know a forum is a place for opinionated people to share their opinions. I have learned a lot through my participation in this forum and it hasn't been by chit chatting with a bunch of like minded people.

Maybe it's just me but I learn the most from people with different views. I will excuse myself from this thread now, you all can go back to stroking yourselves unmolested. Enjoy your red oak.

Before I go, OP used too few clamps when he laminated his fiddle which resulted a lack of uniformity to his glue joint thickness and left some obvious voids. As a pro I have to say this make the appearance of the finished product look rather slip shod and amateurish. For those who are interested in learning more clamps more closely spaced, making a caul to provide more uniform clamping pressure, or vacuum bagging are three different ways to avoid this.
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Old 04-12-2015, 08:55   #37
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Re: How to - Making a cockpit dining table

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Originally Posted by Macblaze View Post
I'm looking at maybe making a new salon table. But I was planning on stopping right after the "cut the plywood" stage. Truly impressive...
This made me laugh.


Op, nice work!
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Old 04-12-2015, 12:36   #38
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Re: How to - Making a cockpit dining table

Hi Privileg,
Awesome craftsmanship, congrats on beautiful work. Love the Inlay work also, interested in how you created the irregular shape ... ??? I can scribe ovals, circles and rectangular type shapes, but this is certainly unique. There must be a reason for it ... ???
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Old 04-12-2015, 12:56   #39
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Re: How to - Making a cockpit dining table

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
Yeah well, looks nice but this is CF and someone has to be all negative so I guess I will step up to the plate and be that guy.

Red oak is like the worst. I really mean it. Terrible rot resistance and smells like ass when you cut it. Has no place on a boat. White oak on the other hand is a different story.

If this was like a crappy 22 footer and you were some kind of dirt bag hippy freegan and red oak was all you could score from the local dumpster I would be like rock on.

But this is for some kind of fancy expensive catamaran so I am like fail. You devalue you boat with a poor material selection. Red oak is only good for residential flooring for cheapskates with no taste.

Does look pretty though, so I'll give you that.
I'll say this Delancey, you're very "blunt" with your comments, I guess you never learned to be polite in your assessment of other folk's work.
As for claiming that oak has no place on a boat ... did you never hear the words "Heart of Oak are our ships" ... found in an old song with reference to British "ships of the line" in the days of Lord Nelson ... ALL British warships were built of OAK.
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Old 04-12-2015, 15:12   #40
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Re: How to - Making a cockpit dining table

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I'll say this Delancey, you're very "blunt" with your comments, I guess you never learned to be polite in your assessment of other folk's work.
As for claiming that oak has no place on a boat ... did you never hear the words "Heart of Oak are our ships" ... found in an old song with reference to British "ships of the line" in the days of Lord Nelson ... ALL British warships were built of OAK.
I may be blunt to people to people who display flagrant disdain for boat building tradition and craft but make no mistake, you sir have very poor reading comprehension skills.

I have been very specific in stating RED OAK has no place on a boat. Furthermore, I have absolutely no doubt that there has NEVER EVER BEEN A SINGLE British warship built of RED OAK.

I am certain of it because any skilled shipwright with pride in his craftsmanship would no sooner waste his precious efforts on a decidedly inferior wood species such as RED OAK than a patriotic American would burn his flag or a devout Muslim would draw a cartoon of Muhammed.
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Old 05-12-2015, 01:11   #41
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Re: How to - Making a cockpit dining table

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. . . I have been very specific in stating RED OAK has no place on a boat. Furthermore, I have absolutely no doubt that there has NEVER EVER BEEN A SINGLE British warship built of RED OAK.

I am certain of it because any skilled shipwright with pride in his craftsmanship would no sooner waste his precious efforts on a decidedly inferior wood species such as RED OAK than a patriotic American would burn his flag or a devout Muslim would draw a cartoon of Muhammed.
I stand corrected . . . having re-read your posts on the subject matter, I fully agree you did indeed state RED OAK . . .
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Old 05-12-2015, 02:55   #42
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Re: How to - Making a cockpit dining table

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I may be blunt to people to people who display flagrant disdain for boat building tradition and craft but make no mistake, you sir have very poor reading comprehension skills.

I have been very specific in stating RED OAK has no place on a boat. Furthermore, I have absolutely no doubt that there has NEVER EVER BEEN A SINGLE British warship built of RED OAK.

I am certain of it because any skilled shipwright with pride in his craftsmanship would no sooner waste his precious efforts on a decidedly inferior wood species such as RED OAK than a patriotic American would burn his flag or a devout Muslim would draw a cartoon of Muhammed.
Yes, indeed. I'm with you here. And to balance all that praise whilst I'm at it; I think the OP was cheating in his post. He made it look like an easy, trivial job and lots of poor people will try to do it and learn this fact the hard way.

No mention of the difficulty of lining up the trimmed oak rim ends, silent on the accuracy of the marquetry cutting. The flawless varnishing etc.

Privelege - Will you make me one please?
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Old 05-12-2015, 06:54   #43
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Re: How to - Making a cockpit dining table

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Yes, indeed. I'm with you here. And to balance all that praise whilst I'm at it; I think the OP was cheating in his post. He made it look like an easy, trivial job and lots of poor people will try to do it and learn this fact the hard way.

No mention of the difficulty of lining up the trimmed oak rim ends, silent on the accuracy of the marquetry cutting. The flawless varnishing etc.

Privelege - Will you make me one please?
Makes it look easy, also at the same time makes things more complicated than they have to be and yet fails to provide any real "How To" information.

A common mistake I see amateurs make is to use epoxy where it is not needed. Everyone seems to think epoxy is the best thing since sliced bread as well as the only adhesive that can be used on a boat. Epoxy is great stuff and has many desirable properties but it is not the only tool in the shed.

The reality is that while one of the benefits of epoxy is it's ability to fill gaps but it is also expensive, messy, requires precision in mixing, has a limited pot life, and is also TOXIC!!!

Regular waterproof aliphatic resin glue such as Titebond 2 or a polyurethane glue such as Gorilla glue used with proper clamping techniques would be more appropriate for this application as well as easier and safer to use and produce better quality results.

The gap filling aspect of epoxy is great for amateurs who lack the skill required to create tight fitting joints which you can see in the close up shots the OP provided of his edge laminations where the joint thickness varies and there are voids visible.

I defy the OP to tell us this lack of uniformity was intentional or planned.

Not something I would be proud of. Not the level of quality anybody should expect to pay a professional for. More clamps more closely spaced, the use of a caul, or vacuum bagging would have eliminated this defect.

Maybe I would be more positive in my remarks if instead of trying to show off and receive pats on the back, the OP would have discussed the difficulties, challenges, and disappointments he encountered in taking on this project. I assume he learned a lot and yet he has shared nothing of the hard lessons.

When I complete a project, all I see are the flaws.

If I wanted to start a "How To" thread I would put the emphasis on the mistakes I made and provide advice to others on "How To" avoid them, but that's just me, cranky Delancey.

That last thing I would do is post a bunch of photos and then sit back and soak up the admiration. You would know about all things I screwed up because I would point them out and you would hopefully learn something as a result.
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Old 05-12-2015, 09:34   #44
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Re: How to - Making a cockpit dining table

Delancy,

Perhaps we shold giv eth OP a break. He never claimed to be a pro, merely an amateur who is proud of his work (and rightfully so).

Perhaps the reaosn he didn't use more clamps is simply because, not being a pro - he doesn't have any more.

I've run into this problem myself and partially solved it by driving 10 penny nails into the board around what I'm trying to bend the laminate and then driving wooden wedges between the nails and the laminate.

Not exactly pro - but it works (not always).

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Old 05-12-2015, 10:52   #45
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Re: How to - Making a cockpit dining table

Like I said before, CF a fickle bunch. If our objective is to provide people gratification and stroke their egos, then I think we should give the OP a break. If our objective is to learn things, then I don't think we should give him a break.

I've seen plenty of people take beatings before on this forum before, myself included, and I don't understand why now my dissent is being castigated. I really don't. Maybe people don't like my approach because it isn't all warm and fuzzy? I can live with that.

What I can't live with is sitting idly by doing nothing when I feel obligated to share my knowledge and expertise. If I didn't feel obligated I wouldn't bother. I feel obligated because I appreciate the fact that I have benefited for the wisdom others have shared with me.

I never said the OP's table didn't look nice or represent a good effort. Amazing? Excellent? Maybe to the uneducated. To someone who has shed a lot of blood, sweat, and tears in pursuit mastering a craft maybe not so much. If anybody is going to learn anything from the information presented so far it is how to do something not necessarily the best way without being told there are alternatives.

If I had to guess why the OP doesn't have enough clamps it's because those particular clamps are expensive while not necessarily the best suited for the task. That same money could have been spent to buy a greater quantity of more versatile clamps. Should I keep my mouth shut so that others are lead to believe they need to go out and buy expensive clamps that aren't very versatile?

I don't believe I should. I think I should advise people they could spare the expense and skip the clamps alltogether and instead use other methods that are practically free. Then they could use the money they saved on clamps to buy some higher quality wood for their project instead of cheap-ass red oak and end up with a higher quality finished product.

Anyone with a shop vac and some plastic sheeting could vacuum bag instead. Got a router and a straight-cut bit and some scrap material? Well then you could make a caul. Got some Saran Wrap cling film? I've seen it done and produced great results. What does that cost? Pocket change.

More than one way to skin a cat. Disappoints me to be admonished for attempting to educate some people on some things they obviously know very little about.
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