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Old 19-02-2015, 05:14   #16
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Re: How to check keel bolts

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Well I can only post of about a single experience with X-rays but FWIW, it was pretty easy to arrange in Perth, Western Australia.
Interesting (and crazy low cost). I've never heard of anyone doing it where I keep my boat (not the same as it hasn't been done). I would expect the tree hugger types to go crazy.
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Old 19-02-2015, 05:50   #17
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Re: How to check keel bolts

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Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
And if you've got a significant quantity of lead down low in the boat, where the bolts are, what then? As I'm guessing that OSHA or whom ever isn't going to sign off on cranking up an x-ray machine high enough to "see" through all of that.
Or, as in the above pictures, that's a good bit of lead to look through in order to "see" the bolts.

Albeit, there are other types of Non-Destructive Testing (NDT) which are a bit more people friendly, & would/will work on various different types of boat construction. Though I don't have links to said resources in front of me @ the moment.
If someone else does, I'd Definitely appreciate it if you'd post them. Heck, I'd even throw in a case of your favorite beverage for your troubles ;-)
Careful Unciv...
It might be worth a case of bourbon for me to do a little research...
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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
It's one thing to x-ray a pipe or hull weld. But the 1/10 thickness of lead for gamma radiation is 2", so a 12" wide lead keel would take a mighty powerful gamma source.
GAMMA GAMMA HEY!

Originally Posted by Wotname
Well I can only post of about a single experience with X-rays but FWIW, it was pretty easy to arrange in Perth, Western Australia.

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Interesting (and crazy low cost). I've never heard of anyone doing it where I keep my boat (not the same as it hasn't been done). I would expect the tree hugger types to go crazy.
No kidding huh???
Sad are the times when something simple due to tech advances... needs a mountain of paperwork and a fee that covers the inevitable liability...

Pretty cool story Wot...
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Old 19-02-2015, 06:36   #18
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Re: How to check keel bolts

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Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
Careful Unciv...
It might be worth a case of bourbon for me to do a little research...

No kidding huh???
Sad are the times when something simple due to tech advances... needs a mountain of paperwork and a fee that covers the inevitable liability...

Pretty cool story Wot...
If you can figure out how to get good image resolution on bolts which in essence, have 2-3'+ of lead on either side of them, I'd be rather impressed. That, or to do it via a high angle overhead/semi side-looking scan through 6-12" of the stuff I'd be mighty impressed by that as well.
Of course, if you can pull that off, I'd also be asking you to take me on a tour of Area-51.

As to the paperwork vs. what's possible using hardware likely my Dad's age to do such a job, we're in COMPLETE agreement!
Ugh, I hate BS & Paper pushers, who's only real job, is to generate so much paper that folks have to keep them around in order to organize the essentially (useless) stuff. And for them to explain by using creative nonsense, why common sense doesn't apply to them or what they do.

To borrow a phrase from a gent who worked for me. "Sir, they (computers) make it WAY too easy for busy bodies to make WAY too much paperwork (for anyone's good)".
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Old 19-02-2015, 06:44   #19
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Re: How to check keel bolts

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
If you can figure out how to get good image resolution on bolts which in essence, have 2-3'+ of lead on either side of them, I'd be rather impressed. That, or to do it via a high angle overhead/semi side-looking scan through 6-12" of the stuff I'd be mighty impressed by that as well.
Of course, if you can pull that off, I'd also be asking you to take me on a tour of Area-51.

Well... If I'm gunna have to prove the effectiveness of my theories... I might as well abandon the effort...

As to the paperwork vs. what's possible using hardware likely my Dad's age to do such a job, we're in COMPLETE agreement!
Ugh, I hate BS & Paper pushers, who's only real job, is to generate so much paper that folks have to keep them around in order to organize the essentially (useless) stuff. And for them to explain by using creative nonsense, why common sense doesn't apply to them or what they do.

To borrow a phrase from a gent who worked for me. "Sir, they (computers) make it WAY too easy for busy bodies to make WAY too much paperwork (for anyone's good)".
Man.... You shoulda evolved with me going from CA in the 60's to CA in the 2k's.... mind boggling...
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Old 19-02-2015, 09:36   #20
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Re: How to check keel bolts

"Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
If they are bolts just remove them, one at a time, and replace. If they are studs, you'll likely have to drop the keel."

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Originally Posted by ErikFinn View Post
Have you (anyone) done this with boat in the water (bolts)? Ok, or definitely not?
Come on! Removing keel bolts or dropping the keel is something you want to do at haulout.
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Old 19-02-2015, 19:13   #21
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Re: How to check keel bolts

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Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
"Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
If they are bolts just remove them, one at a time, and replace. If they are studs, you'll likely have to drop the keel."



Come on! Removing keel bolts or dropping the keel is something you want to do at haulout.
Yea I was referring to the changing the bolts one at a time, not dropping the keel, obviously.
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Old 19-02-2015, 20:28   #22
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Re: How to check keel bolts

Remove bolts with boat in the water? All of them? At one Time?
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Old 19-02-2015, 21:18   #23
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Re: How to check keel bolts

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Originally Posted by ErikFinn View Post
Yea I was referring to the changing the bolts one at a time, not dropping the keel, obviously.
just replaced mine, bolts, one at a time, while the boat is in the water..
Replacing the bolts in the water will show you if the hull to keel joint is sealed.
Mine is, and not a drop of water comming up.. If you have water comming from the hole where you pull the bolt, the joint is compromised and the boat needs to be hauled and the keel dropped............
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Old 19-02-2015, 22:08   #24
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Re: How to check keel bolts

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Originally Posted by Randyonr3 View Post
just replaced mine, bolts, one at a time, while the boat is in the water..
Replacing the bolts in the water will show you if the hull to keel joint is sealed.
Mine is, and not a drop of water comming up.. If you have water comming from the hole where you pull the bolt, the joint is compromised and the boat needs to be hauled and the keel dropped............
Now thats more like a reply I was hoping for instead of some " ".
Too many times problem on forums is that people are too narrow minded and consider "my way or high way" to be the only approach when it comes to someone hoping to stimulate an educated conversation.
Thank you for your educated and kind post Randy
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Old 16-03-2015, 13:21   #25
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Re: How to check keel bolts

This is about a 1973 Pearson 36-1 with a deep bilge sump and 12 bronze 5/8" J-bolts.

I hope this is the correct thread, but I need to drop my keel due to slight separation between the lead and the fiberglass keel stub. The silicone around the keel bolts has failed due to age and there is a 1mm separation in the front of the lead/keel stub joint. The keel bolts haven't been retorqued in 42 years and she has bumped a couple of rocks lately. No wonder she is smiling.

My first problem is somebody, probably Pearson poured resin into the bilge and all over the keel bolt holes in the bilge. I have to clean all the threads of the bronze "J" bolts before I can remove the 15/16" nuts from the 5/8" studs. In some places, I can barely reach the keel bolt nut and can't get a Dremel with a small wire brush all around the stud. Needless to say there isn't room for a die to clean the threads.

Some of the bolts are so close to the bilge wall, or in such a tight spot that I can't get even a deep socket over the 3" of extended bronze bolt without removing a 1/4" of bilge wall.

I have been able to remove 9 of the 12 nuts from their 5/8" bolts, but I may have to resort to splitting the last 3 bronze nuts.

I am having really deep (150mm and 225mm long) hole saws made by cutting bi-metal hole saws in half that have the ID of my keel bolt's OD and welding in lengths of tubing.

I need to be able to put the hole saw over the 3" long bolt that's protuding up into the bilge and then still cut through 3" of bilge floor down to the lead. I already made test holes with a 1/4 drill bit.

I will have the boat lifted off the travel lift and block the keel somehow. Suggestions?

I may not be able to use the die to clean all the 5/8" threads until the keel is separated from the hull. I just can't risk having the keel bolts hanging up when the boat is lifted.

Couple of more questions.

Drilling test holes to find the lead under the bilge floor brought up shavings of what looks like MarineTex. White chalky plastic with no signs of any glass fibers.

Second question: Can I carefully use a pencil torch to burn off the MarineTex/resin/frozen snot whatever-it-is from the bronze keel studs? Does bronze lose temper or anything when heated. I am not talking about red hot, only just to burn of that crap that's all over the keel studs.
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Old 16-03-2015, 15:03   #26
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Re: How to check keel bolts

Wow, impressively big job and I can't help much except to say I think (but don't know) the bronze will be OK with the amount of heat you plan to use.
Good luck with the job.
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Old 16-03-2015, 15:34   #27
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Re: How to check keel bolts

This is unique to Britain, but it's a very effective technique nonetheless.
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Old 18-03-2015, 02:11   #28
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Re: How to check keel bolts

Hi there, I have a Carter 33 and a small crack has appeared between the keel and the hull from the front going back 12 inches. I'm going to check the keel bolts but I don't know the torque values. Any idea where I would find them and is there anything else I need to know? Hope you guys can help and many thanks
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Old 18-03-2015, 04:12   #29
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Re: How to check keel bolts

Torque values go by bolt size. More information is on the internet.

1/2" 38ft lbs

5/8" 70ft lbs

3/4" 125ft lbs

1" 280ft lbs
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Old 13-04-2015, 14:40   #30
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Re: How to check keel bolts

What do you do if you have studs embedded in a cast iron keel and they look to be in need of replacement? Are they replaceable?


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