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Old 02-12-2012, 18:23   #46
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Re: How Often do you Clean the Bottom?

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How much earlier had the hull been treated with anti-fouling paint?
The paint is about a year old.
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Old 02-12-2012, 18:26   #47
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Re: How Often do you Clean the Bottom?

Location, location, location...... that amount of growth doesn't happen over a year in many.....very many places!
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Old 02-12-2012, 18:30   #48
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Re: How Often do you Clean the Bottom?

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...who knows what is under that growth and how long it has been there, and how long the boat has been sitting in one spot
What is under that growth is paint that is in pretty good condition and could be made to last significantly longer if cleaned more frequently. That, in fact, is why I took this picture in the first place. This convinced the owner of this particular Hunter 33 to have his boat cleaned every other month, which is what I recommended he do.
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Old 02-12-2012, 18:34   #49
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Re: How Often do you Clean the Bottom?

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The paint is about a year old.
Lousy paint. Boat located near a sewage outlet (city, boats, or otherwise)?
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Old 02-12-2012, 18:44   #50
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Re: How Often do you Clean the Bottom?

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Lousy paint. Boat located near a sewage outlet (city, boats, or otherwise)?
It is not lousy paint and the boat is berthed in a yacht club marina in Alameda. It is Pettit Trinidad (which is the best anti fouing paint available in California. IMHO), is in good condition and is showing what is very typically three months worth of growth in San Francisco Bay. If you keep a boat here and only clean the hull a few times a year, this (or worse) is what is growing on the bottom.
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Old 02-12-2012, 19:00   #51
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Re: How Often do you Clean the Bottom?

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It is not lousy paint and the boat is berthed in a yacht club marina in Alameda.
I imagine the boat is located in stagnant, nutrient-rich waters. ... Here in Vallejo, the coots (the water birds) nibble vegetative growth from the docks and boats.
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Old 02-12-2012, 19:02   #52
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Re: How Often do you Clean the Bottom?

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I imagine the boat is located in stagnant, nutrient-rich waters.
The boat lives on the Oakland Estuary, which is anything but stagnant. You are trying to rationalize this level of fouling, but I assure you it is typical throughout the greater San Francisco Bay.

Here is the fouling on J/120, also in Alameda, who's owner was experimenting with a non-toxic anti fouling coating. One month's growth, August/September, 2011:

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Old 02-12-2012, 19:04   #53
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Re: How often do you clean the bottom?

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All regions with widely varying fouling conditons. Add to that the fact that you own a powerboat that lives in a shed on a river 100 miles from the ocean, and I'd say that you are absolutely unqualified to comment on what is an appropriate hull cleaning frequency or not for anybody other than yourself.

For many boat owners in regions of moderate to high fouling, monthly cleanings are not only appropriate, but necessary. And properly done by hull cleaners using Best Management Practices, it is not detrimental to the anti fouling paint. Quite the opposite, in fact. Arguing otherwise only displays ignorance of proper boat maintenance.
By what standard are you judging whether people are qualified to speak on hull cleaning? You are an industry professional who has a vested interest in the failure of antifouling paint. When an antifouling paint is not effective, you potentially make a profit.

When you shamelessly tell people here that bottom cleanings (done properly, albeit) do not render antifouling paint less effective, you are in effect marketing your profession. Please do not attempt to discredit people here based on your professional qualifications -- as your financial interest is at stake with every ounce of "advice" you offer.

This is worse than the psychotherapist telling the patient "Come back for five more sessions before I can determine whether you need more therapy."

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You wouldn't know this of course, since you do not keep a boat in a marine environment in California, but a quality anti fouling paint, gently cleaned on relatively frequent basis will provide good performance for 3+ years and over the long run, save the boat owner thousands of dollars in haulout and bottom painting expenditures and far outweigh any increase in hull cleaning costs.

Here’s the math for 10 years of ownership of a 40' boat in the San Francisco Bay Area:

3-month cleaning frequency (painted every 2 years)
$2800 bottom job X 5 = $14,000
$90 hull cleaning (4 times/year X10) = $3600
Total expenditure (10 years) = $17,600

2-month cleaning frequency (painted every 3 years)
$2800 bottom job X 3 = $8400
$90 hull cleaning (6 times/year X10) = $5400
Total expenditure (10 years) = $13,800

Total savings- $3800
Your math is interesting -- as you previously advocated monthly cleanings. If you wanted to make it more relevant, put each of these poor clients down for a monthly cleaning and let them see their bottom paint deteriorate to the extent that the gelcoat begins to show.

And if the boat was in such a horribly prone-to-growth area, wouldn't yearly applications of bottom paint fit the bill better?

I'm not discounting the need for bottom cleaning at all. What I am doing is pointing out the profession's persistent advocation of how frequent the bottom cleanings should be. The OP asked if once a month is necessary. We all gave him an honest answer. Yet, you blatantly attacked most posters who failed to enthusiastically tell the OP he should get as many cleanings as he could afford. And for that, you represented your profession poorly. Good job!
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Old 02-12-2012, 19:12   #54
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Re: How Often do you Clean the Bottom?

I had our Hunter 450 in Alameda for three months July-Sept. 20010 following the application of new bottom paint at KKMI in Sausalito, and never needed the bottom to be cleaned even once prior to heading south at the end of Sept. The first time it was scrubbed was at 4 months as a precaution, because I was worried about the zincs. Even in Alameda, where you work, the boats only need to be scrubbed once every three months... any more is excessive.

Fstbttms

I simply don't believe the picture showing probably more like a years growth. Do you show this example to all your clients'?
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Old 02-12-2012, 19:27   #55
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Re: How Often do you Clean the Bottom?

Here, freshly hauled after five months in San Francisco Bay waters without any scrubbings:

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Old 02-12-2012, 19:27   #56
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Re: How often do you clean the bottom?

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By what standard are you judging whether people are qualified to speak on hull cleaning?
And this is what- you being a good guy by telling people that hull cleaners are shysters?

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Whoever tells you scrubbing the bottom of your boat once a month is a good thing is either attempting to milk you or has rocks in his head.

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When an antifouling paint is not effective, you potentially make a profit.
Boats need regular cleaning here regardless of whether or not their paint is in good condition. No hull cleaner in his right mind wants his job to be harder. And I wouldn't be in business long if I was intentionally ruining my customer's paint.

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Your math is interesting -- as you previously advocated monthly cleanings. If you wanted to make it more relevant, put each of these poor clients down for a monthly cleaning and let them see their bottom paint deteriorate to the extent that the gelcoat begins to show.
Never advocated monthly cleaning for my clients here in the Bay Area. For the average casual sailor here, every other month is preferable. And that's what I tell my clients.

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And if the boat was in such a horribly prone-to-growth area, wouldn't yearly applications of bottom paint fit the bill better?
How many boat owners do you know that would like to haul and paint every year?

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The OP asked if once a month is necessary. We all gave him an honest answer.
No, what you told him was that anybody who said that monthly cleanings were OK was trying to rip him off. Even though he does his boating in Mexico and you do yours in Sacramento. Like you have a clue about it.

Anybody who has read my posts here knows I'm not trying to drum up business. I don't pull any punches and when somebody pipes up with some ignorant BS about my area of expertise, I'm gonna call him (or her) on it. Too bad if that upsets you.
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Old 02-12-2012, 19:30   #57
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Re: How Often do you Clean the Bottom?

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Yeah, but it has a drastic effect on my performance under power!
Indeed! Though after a month in the water looks like it would fall apart pretty quickly should you engage the prop. Though the Enviro Police will be shooting across your bow in a heartbeat as well they should. It's best to remove it by hand and dispose of properly there's already too much plastic in the water already. That's what I did.
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Old 02-12-2012, 19:33   #58
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Re: How Often do you Clean the Bottom?

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Even in Alameda, where you work, the boats only need to be scrubbed once every three months... any more is excessive.
And you base this statement on what- your extensive experience cleaning boat bottoms in the Bay Area?


2 month's growth on a brand new zinc-based paint in Richmond


3 month's growthon a Trinidad bottom in Alameda


1 month growth on a zinc/Econea bottom in Richmond


2 month's growth on a brand new Micron 66 bottom in Richmond


Shall I go on? I've got hundreds more like these.
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Old 02-12-2012, 19:35   #59
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Re: How Often do you Clean the Bottom?

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Here, freshly hauled after five months in San Francisco Bay waters without any scrubbings:

Sorry, but Vallejo is brackish water. Apples and oranges.
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Old 02-12-2012, 19:47   #60
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Re: How Often do you Clean the Bottom?

I might have come across this ad at one time or another. Thought I'd share it...


Introducing Larry's marine bottom cleaning service. We've cleaned more boat bottoms than we have cleaned bank accounts. Trust us, we have your interests in mind (wink).



Unlike most bottom cleaning services, we recommend having your boat's bottom cleaned three times a day!

This unfortunate boat owner failed to have the anodes on his drives scrubbed three times a day, and look what happened:



Please excuse the typo. "Months" should have read "hours." My bad, hahahaha!

This unfortunate boat owner skipped a cleaning and woke up to this:



All of this happened in a few hours. We show this picture to all of our clients and stand by it.

Sooooooo.... If your boat is in the water or even out of the water (we'll give you as many reasons as you can tolerate hearing as to why your boat's bottom should be cleaned three times a day, even if its on the hard or trailered), and you need our bottom cleaning service, just mention this ad and we'll treat you to our two for one special.

Please remember us when it comes to your bottom cleaning needs. We don't use fuzzy math or show you exaggerated pictures. We'll give you the straight truth you want to hear. Guaranteed! (wink)
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