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Old 24-09-2010, 17:23   #16
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I had a furling line part at the reduced volume end-to-end splice when using a winch. I would not recommend using a winch, as once the furling line parts, you get FULL SAIL almost right now!

In fact I went as far as making up a short section of wire rope with a loop on each end. When flying the foresail reefed, I shackle one end to the tack of the sail where it connects to the roller, and the other end to a pad eye on deck, effectively holding the sail in whatever state of reef. The drawback obviously being a trip forward if further reefing it required.

If you did need to belay the furling line and a horned cleat was too difficult (or broken/missing) how about a Prussick knot?
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Old 24-09-2010, 17:45   #17
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The specific problem I'm talking about is, if I end up needing a winch to get the furling line in, it's very difficult to move the furling line off the winch to the horn cleat unless I detension the line by rolling it up completely.

Normally (like a few people mentioned) falling off and sheeting out eases the tension enough to furl, but in some cases, when things build quickly and past a certain point, it seems like a bad idea to head downwind fully canvased. Sometimes it feels safer to head up and try to bring some sail down.
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Old 24-09-2010, 18:08   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
The specific problem I'm talking about is, if I end up needing a winch to get the furling line in, it's very difficult to move the furling line off the winch to the horn cleat unless I detension the line by rolling it up completely.

Normally (like a few people mentioned) falling off and sheeting out eases the tension enough to furl, but in some cases, when things build quickly and past a certain point, it seems like a bad idea to head downwind fully canvased. Sometimes it feels safer to head up and try to bring some sail down.
Try heading off. It slows everything down. You can sail two or more forces more with the same canvas downwind, compared to upwind. If you're overpowered anyway, it's much more manageable, downwind than up.

Heading up will really not be safer. It will exaggerate the forces.

To get the furling line off a winch and onto something else, bend on another line with a rolling hitch and haul away. If it's another winch, then you just winch it in until the second line is gone.
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Old 24-09-2010, 18:27   #19
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On our boat a 22 sq m jib cab be furled single handedly in all weather. When it blows, I actually have some extra friction as I will go pulling via the winch (1 turn).

the line goes from the drum along the side of the boat to the cockpit. Our drum is relatively large diameter, I think at least 5 inch. Our furling line is 6 mm but I would prefer 8 mm, except the drum will not take this size.

In fact it is hardly ever that our jib will be all out in a blow - we will normally have it already slightly in as soon as we see any sign to do so.
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Old 24-09-2010, 18:38   #20
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I have mine run to a cam cleat on the coaming so I can pull like hell and not loose the gains. Once i had to put it on one of the winches on the opposing coaming if I had had both staysl and gennie set and on a port tack your right it would have been tough but I cleaned all the bearings and all has been better since.
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Old 24-09-2010, 19:04   #21
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We have camcleats on the end-blocks for the furling lines (genoa and stays'l) and they work fine. They are Harkens, similar to what you show in the link. If you are using the camcleats to secure the furling line when partly reefed, make sure the line is well set in the cam. It's not fun when the line pulls out of the cam!

To furl or reef in a blow we just ease the sheet until the tension on the furling line is low enough to let us pull it in. Sometimes I use a winch to help. As long as the line isn't fouled, the halyard swivel is free, the forestay isn't too loose, etc, there is no more strain on the furling line than when you have the headsail reefed and you sheet in tight. We seem to be able to keep the sail from flogging, but it helps to have one person on the sheet and another on the furling line. I can do it singlehanded, but it's a pretty slow operation when the wind is up.
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Old 24-09-2010, 19:10   #22
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Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
Bumping an old thread here because I have a similar issue.
On a San Juan 28? Nice boat. But you needed a winch to furl? Never! See my post #8 or other's above regarding bearing away to reduce pressure. Never flog.

On the first puff of heavier wind bear away smartly. Easing the sheets. Get at least a foot or two of headsail furled before the second puff hits. It's way easier from there.
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Old 24-09-2010, 21:19   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
The specific problem I'm talking about is, if I end up needing a winch to get the furling line in, it's very difficult to move the furling line off the winch to the horn cleat unless I detension the line by rolling it up completely.

We can't furl our 150% genny under load either and I won't allow winching it.

We'll release the sheet furl the sail and sheet in. Yes the genny flogs but it flogs for like 15 seconds. No need to change heading on any wind angle.

It helps to have someone tend the sheets as they are flying around but I have done it on many occasions by myself.
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Old 25-09-2010, 02:07   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post

When wind builds really fast and I get overpowered, pulling the genoa furling line can be really hard! The other day winds went from 8kts stead to 28kts in about 30 seconds. It didn't feel safe to bear off and ease the sheet with that much wind, but pointing up makes the sail flog so much that I worry about damaging it,

.

Flog the bloody sail! Its only for a few seconds.

We put 6 (SIX) complete twists in the FOIL when I was mate on a Swan 65 footer racing version between Brazil and Argentina. I was off watch below at night and I kept hearing the Coffee Grindger going for a bit, stopping, then going again and the skippers voice. So I get up put my head on deck and they have the FURLING line on a COFFEE GRINDER!!!!!
I mentioned that if there was a problem that needed the coffee grinder they better look to the scource of the problem and not pull the crap outta it. It was made clear that I should return to bed

I was the poor bugger who had to cut the foil off the forestay! 6 twists!

If you can't turn the boat down or up, just let the sail fly and fly completely, then haul it in by hand.
What you will actually find is when you let the sail fly you will drop boat speed and then you will be able to come up or drop off the wind much easier


Hope this helps



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Old 27-09-2010, 19:00   #25
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As to my original issue

Many thanks to those who helped me out with this original issue. It turns out that my problem was actually one of friction, as the furler was run through fairleads *outside* of the stantions. I took a picture of the chafe pretty much completely through the aftmost fairlead. I'll try and find it when I get to my other computer.

I solved my problem by purchasing a series of lash-on carbon blocks, and moving the furling line to blocks run inside the stantions. This has so radically reduced friction in the system that I can furl much more easily. I also mounted a cam cleat (with it's own fairlead) forward of the horn cleat, which makes life *much* more pleasant when dealing with the loaded sail.

I'm hopefully headed down to the boat tomorrow to begin the installation of my new Lavac head, so I'll try and take some "after" photos to go with the before ones, and I'll post them up here. I'll try and find that aft fairlead, and take a better photo of it off the boat.

Nothing like picking the hotest day of the year to embark on a septic project. Maybe I'll go sailing instead :-)

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Old 28-09-2010, 00:46   #26
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It sounds like you've found your solution, but here are some nice blocks that work well for running the furling line outside the stanchion:

These are the Harken "7403" blocks (Product Details). I switched to these a few years ago and am very pleased with their performance, and with the reduced clutter on deck.
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Old 28-09-2010, 06:32   #27
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I'm just now converting from all out racing after 35 years to cruising.

Just learning about furlers and in the process of buying one.

I think from reading this thread not enough thought is on resistance of the lines and furler drum bearings.

After racing we take dawn and squirt it in all the blocks that got wet and hose them out real good it makes a big difference.

The drum on the stem must get plenty of salt water and needs to be flushed regularly, in fact Harken has a video on it.

Next is the way the line is led.

I see most run it along the life lines then making a sharp turn into the cockpit, each turn requires more force.

I intend to run it straight back along the cabin top as I did the spinn downhaul.

From there it will go into sheets stopper.



If the stopper is positioned right it can go to winch if needed (I know never use a winch)


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Old 28-09-2010, 11:45   #28
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Try heading off. It slows everything down. You can sail two or more forces more with the same canvas downwind, compared to upwind. If you're overpowered anyway, it's much more manageable, downwind than up.

Heading up will really not be safer. It will exaggerate the forces.

To get the furling line off a winch and onto something else, bend on another line with a rolling hitch and haul away. If it's another winch, then you just winch it in until the second line is gone.

Arch,

Once you try what Dockhead recommends, you'll probably never try it any other way when it's blowing hard.

The reduced force on the sail from both going downwind and from the blanketing effect of the main will make it dramatically easier to furl your headsail.
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Old 11-03-2013, 01:35   #29
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Re: How Is Your Furling Line Rigged ?

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Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
The specific problem I'm talking about is, if I end up needing a winch to get the furling line in, it's very difficult to move the furling line off the winch to the horn cleat unless I detension the line by rolling it up completely.

Normally (like a few people mentioned) falling off and sheeting out eases the tension enough to furl, but in some cases, when things build quickly and past a certain point, it seems like a bad idea to head downwind fully canvased. Sometimes it feels safer to head up and try to bring some sail down.
I get it. I have a Westsail 43 with twin headsails. It is not always easy for my wife to let out a partial furl or roll up in heavy winds without the aid of a winch. This is my setup with a special dual rope clutch slide car made for t-track by Garhauer. This was a special order. Combined with a turning block and an extra pushpit cleat, this setup has a lot of versatility, especially in the heavy wind situations you describe.
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Old 11-03-2013, 07:34   #30
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Re: How Is Your Furling Line Rigged ?

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Don't ever use a winch.
Don't luff up in a blow, bear away to 140 apparent, ease the sheet way out.
Don't use a fairlead if the line bends more than a few degrees (5?), use a proper block.
Reef 5 minutes before you first think of reefing
Carefully follow the furler instructions regarding the halyard lead and tension.
Don't let the forestay sag, use some backstay.

You should be able to furl a 600 sqft genoa, or more, by hand in a squall. I bet yours is much smaller.
I agree. Luffing a big genoa can make a flogging sheet actually dangerous in some condidtions. I also wouldn't ever put a furling line to a winch and I have a 42 foot boat. The only times I couldn't pull it in by hand, was when something was jammed.
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