How do I repair this anchor shackle?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

Actually those are not Robertson, they are square drive, no taper at all. I've got a few of them kicking around but not used on the boat, I've also got a set of metric/imperial 4 Point male impact sockets that make short work of pulling them apart.

I do have one "special" key and basically all it is a piece of bent key steel.....

High tensile shackle GREEN PIN at Toplicht
High tensile shackle GREEN PIN at Toplicht

Well, if you've got tools that fit, and can get them to go in -- more power to you.

The advantage of any kind of square drive, Robertson or not, is that IF you can get the tool in, you can exert quite a lot of force on them without stripping. So with penetrating oil, vibration, and heat -- you'd have a good chance of getting it unscrewed, IF you could get the tool in.


Still, I'd have it off with the angle grinder before you could even collect out of your lockers the stuff you'd need to start that process . . .

[RaymondR]

Why take it off if it's only been used 5 times, that little bit of rust is harmless.

[Wotname]

It's great that you guys know exactly what method you would use to get this shackle apart

Me: I would take half the day trying to decide whether to get out the angle grinder and have done with it inside 30 seconds or if I should preserve with undoing it properly with all the associated soaking and heating and so forth. I would then spend the second half of the day thinking I had wasted the first half of the day...

Tomorrow I would think: it's OK the way it is. Then on the third day, I would cut it off with the angle grinder before breakfast...

It's all in the way you think these jobs, not in the doing - you gotta be one with problem

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Well, if you've got tools that fit, and can get them to go in -- more power to you.

The advantage of any kind of square drive, Robertson or not, is that IF you can get the tool in, you can exert quite a lot of force on them without stripping. So with penetrating oil, vibration, and heat -- you'd have a good chance of getting it unscrewed, IF you could get the tool in.


Still, I'd have it off with the angle grinder before you could even collect out of your lockers the stuff you'd need to start that process . . .

For sure, no argument there from me, that's why I carry one of these with a stock of 1mm cut off disks, shackles gone in seconds....

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Wotname

It's great that you guys know exactly what method you would use to get this shackle apart

Me: I would take half the day trying to decide whether to get out the angle grinder and have done with it inside 30 seconds or if I should preserve with undoing it properly with all the associated soaking and heating and so forth. I would then spend the second half of the day thinking I had wasted the first half of the day...

Tomorrow I would think: it's OK the way it is. Then on the third day, I would cut it off with the angle grinder before breakfast...

It's all in the way you think these jobs, not in the doing - you gotta be one with problem

You owe me for a ruined computer screen, I spewed coffee all over laughing. ROTFLMAO.


That is EXACTLY the way I tend to do every job on board, if I don't force myself to be more methodical. It's a disease, something like island time

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

WTF is wrong with you people? The thing will most likely just screw apart; ...

How many CF members does it take to change a light bulb remove a shackle?....

[jbinbi]

OK, as OP I figured I would write back to all the experts.

1. Square drive is what I thought, but metric, not a clean fit from when I tried, and looks pretty rusted. Dockhead, Island Hopper, you guys can debate what it is, but I couldn't get something in to turn anything. So I posted this thread.
1a. Figure since this is holding my boat , and new shackle is a whole $15, good idea to just get a new one
2. Never tried to take one off with just unscrewing the pin, not easily able to do that with this one, if I could have done that with this, I would not have posted
3. Thread could have been over after a few posts explaining it would be easy with a hacksaw, didn't know that it would take 5 min with a hacksaw.
4. Do have bolt cutters, but these were from when I had a monohull. Take a look at the shrouds on a cat. My bolt cutters will not get thru these.

Always amazed that people take personal potshots to show their knowledge by insulting others who don't have that info. The forum I believe is for an exchange of information. I am an expert in some things, not other things, but others are. So I am never afraid to ask questions. I believe there have been about 3 brilliant people in Earth's whole history, the guy who invented the wheel, the guy who invented fire, and the guy who made up numbers. Everyone else has plagiarized and improved on them. I am not afraid to plagiarize from someone who knows a bit more.

BTW, in more than 50 years of boating, and more of living, I have never needed an angle grinder. Since I can use a hacksaw in 10 min to do this job, I still don't;-)

Appreciate those who have helped out.

[Blue Stocking]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I think I would beg, barrow or steal some bolt cutters, cut the shackle and since space looks limited go back a link and cut it. I would refrain from anything which would generate heat or generate grindings on your deck.

Now you're talking!. We have a 48" set of bolt cutters that we named " Monday Morning Hangover " . Will cut 1/2" chain.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

OK, as OP I figured I would write back to all the experts.

1. Square drive is what I thought, but metric, not a clean fit from when I tried, and looks pretty rusted. Dockhead, Island Hopper, you guys can debate what it is, but I couldn't get something in to turn anything. So I posted this thread.

1a. Figure since this is holding my boat , and new shackle is a whole $15, good idea to just get a new one
This absolutely makes sense!

2. Never tried to take one off with just unscrewing the pin, not easily able to do that with this one, if I could have done that with this, I would not have posted
Ditto my above comment.
3. Thread could have been over after a few posts explaining it would be easy with a hacksaw, didn't know that it would take 5 min with a hacksaw.
This is probably where, & why the "potshots" started. Given that it's hard to concieve that an adult has never either seen metal being cut with a hacksaw, or done it himself (dozens or hundreds of times). Especially given that a big part of owning a boat is doing the upkeep on her, which means having a basic proficiency with tools.

4. Do have bolt cutters, but these were from when I had a monohull. Take a look at the shrouds on a cat. My bolt cutters will not get thru these.
Bolt cutters are handy & a safety item to have around for more situations than in case you lose the rig, & have to cut it away.
For example:
- Your anchor/anchor rode could get fouled in some cable on the bottom, which you discover when you haul the anchor up to the bow. And the only way to free it may be to cut said cable.
- You may be in a situation where you need to cut your anchor chain in a hurry, as you're suddenly on a lee shore, & (foolishly) close to the beach/rocks. So that you haven't the luxury of letting your chain run all the way out until the rope rode connecting it to the boat comes up on deck so that you can cut it with a knife. Which, in such a situation, with the bow of the boat moving like an angry rodeo bull, a hacksaw ain't an attractive option, nor a quick one. Hence the wisdom of bolt cutters at such a time.
I'm SURE that a lot of folks who lost their boats in the infamous Cabo storm in '82 wished they'd had a pair onboard. As this is exactly the situation which most of them found themselves in.

Always amazed that people take personal potshots to show their knowledge by insulting others who don't have that info.
Are you trying to state, without coming right out & saying it, that members are taking potshots at you? If so, where, why, & especially, why not address such things directly with those you percieve to be doing it.
Asking a poster to better clarify what it is that he's stating, or trying to, goes a long way to avoiding hard feelings, & or, harboring resentments. And asking them to cut it out/avoid drifting the thread only makes sense.

The forum I believe is for an exchange of information. I am an expert in some things, not other things, but others are. So I am never afraid to ask questions.
Asking questions is often a good idea. As is stopping, & researching it directly one's self. Regardless of the topic, or field. Especially as in doing the research, you learn a whole lot more & on multiple topics, than just the answer or three to the initial question.
Tends to fend off snide answers to problems easily solved by common sense too.
BTW, in more than 50 years of boating, and more of living, I have never needed an angle grinder. Since I can use a hacksaw in 10 min to do this job, I still don't;-)

Appreciate those who have helped out. Good deal.

BTW, when a metal fitting is really good & stuck, Thermite is a good removal tool.

[jbinbi]

3. Thread could have been over after a few posts explaining it would be easy with a hacksaw, didn't know that it would take 5 min with a hacksaw.

This is probably where, & why the "potshots" started. Given that it's hard to concieve that an adult has never either seen metal being cut with a hacksaw, or done it himself (dozens or hundreds of times). Especially given that a big part of owning a boat is doing the upkeep on her, which means having a basic proficiency with tools.

Classic example right here. Hard to conceive an adult has never either seen metal being cut with a hacksaw. Essentially implying I have never seen a hacksaw being used, or even never cut with a hacksaw.

I have never had to cut a galvanized shackle. How would I know if a hacksaw would do the job. And a great post above said, 'don't do this on deck' it leaves little metal filings that are impossible to get out and leave rust stains. That is priceless info by itself. Given that I am on a mooring, I probably would have tried that on my deck. Now I know to get my boat to the dock.

Can I take a hacksaw and just cut through 7/8" chain. Would it take 3, minutes, 30 minutes, or 300 minutes. Don't know, never tried it, but hoping someone here knows if I post.

Could I just take chisel and hammer and break the shackle? No idea. Never tried it. Angle grinder. Sure, but don't own one. Bolt cutters. Mabye, but I have 18" or so ones, would they work?

It's why I asked. Too bad some people can't answer without making assumptions about people and things. It's hard for you to conceive that someone hasn't used a "whatever it is they are asking about"? Not me, whether it is a hacksaw or micrometer, no one is an expert in everything. I am willing to give advice on what I am expert in without condescension. I want people to learn, not feel humiliated that they haven't had the experience.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Firstly, to be very, very clear. It was not, & is not, my intention to attempt to make you look like an idiot. Nor do I think that my wording is inflammatory in that sense. The reason being, is that in my mind anyone who's used a hacksaw enough to have dulled a half dozen blades with one, has a fairly decent idea of what they will or won't cut, & how long it will take. A reasonable precept IMO.

Originally Posted by jbinbi

3. Thread could have been over after a few posts explaining it would be easy with a hacksaw, didn't know that it would take 5 min with a hacksaw.

This is probably where, & why the "potshots" started. Given that it's hard to concieve that an adult has never either seen metal being cut with a hacksaw, or done it himself (dozens or hundreds of times). Especially given that a big part of owning a boat is doing the upkeep on her, which means having a basic proficiency with tools.

Classic example right here. Hard to conceive an adult has never either seen metal being cut with a hacksaw. Essentially implying I have never seen a hacksaw being used, or even never cut with a hacksaw.
See above.

I have never had to cut a galvanized shackle. How would I know if a hacksaw would do the job. And a great post above said, 'don't do this on deck' it leaves little metal filings that are impossible to get out and leave rust stains. That is priceless info by itself. Given that I am on a mooring, I probably would have tried that on my deck. Now I know to get my boat to the dock.
To be clear, the statements about metal filings primarily has to do with them being sprayed onto the deck, & subsequently melting their way into the gelcoat, when using a powered grinder to cut steel on deck. Since the material removed when cutting metal with a grinder is quite hot, as evidenced by the sparks that it throws.

Can I take a hacksaw and just cut through 7/8" chain.
Yes.

Would it take 3, minutes, 30 minutes, or 300 minutes. Don't know, never tried it, but hoping someone here knows if I post.
Depends on what the chain's made of, it's heat treatment, the type of hacksaw blades used, whether or not cutting oil is used, how hot you let the blades & the chain get, plus a number of other factors.
But short answer; with a sharp blade, assuming non-hardened chain, about 10min. +/-

Could I just take chisel and hammer and break the shackle?
Yes. But then what can't be cut with a hammer & chisel, given the appropriate chisel & a large enough hammer?
No idea. Never tried it. Angle grinder. Sure, but don't own one. Bolt cutters. Mabye, but I have 18" or so ones, would they work?
Yep, bolt cutters of that size should do the job, so long as the cutting edges can fully engage the shackle. Or worst case you'd need to do it in a couple of "nibbles" with them. Best to try it now, in case you need to do it with some urgency in the future, some examples of which I provided previously.

It's why I asked. Too bad some people can't answer without making assumptions about people and things. It's hard for you to conceive that someone hasn't used a "whatever it is they are asking about"?
This statement is erronious. I never made such an assumption sir.
Not me, whether it is a hacksaw or micrometer, no one is an expert in everything. I am willing to give advice on what I am expert in without condescension. I want people to learn, not feel humiliated that they haven't had the experience.

One cannot offer advice to anyone else on any topic out there, without making some assumptions about them, & their level of understanding of things which relate to the problem at hand. Usually beginning with discerning, whether or not they speak the same language, & progressing from there. Otherwise, without such assumptions, someone responding to a question or problem posted on here would first need to ask quite a few question of the OP to determine what level of knowledge they were operating from. So assumptions are fairly vital to this process. And if they're incorrect, then it's up to those involved to sort them out. As gentlemen.
Here is an example of my doing this http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2407348

As to egos, emotional hangups, etc. That's outside of the topic of this thread. Also, as previously stated, I had little enough reason/incentive to try & cause you grief. Intentionally or otherwise.
And yes, I too want to help folks to learn. It's one of the primary reasons why I've offered up over 4,500 posts to help folks to do so, & to sort out problems with their boats.

[Cotemar]

jbinbi,

You will be all good with cutting the shackle off with a hacksaw. It should only take a few minutes to do.

Replace with a Crosby G-209A shackle. They sell them at Defenders.

Your a very smart guy.

Do not let these OLD DUDE's take you down.
.
.

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

3. Thread could have been over after a few posts explaining it would be easy with a hacksaw, didn't know that it would take 5 min with a hacksaw.

This is probably where, & why the "potshots" started. Given that it's hard to concieve that an adult has never either seen metal being cut with a hacksaw, or done it himself (dozens or hundreds of times). Especially given that a big part of owning a boat is doing the upkeep on her, which means having a basic proficiency with tools.

Classic example right here. Hard to conceive an adult has never either seen metal being cut with a hacksaw. Essentially implying I have never seen a hacksaw being used, or even never cut with a hacksaw.

I have never had to cut a galvanized shackle. How would I know if a hacksaw would do the job. And a great post above said, 'don't do this on deck' it leaves little metal filings that are impossible to get out and leave rust stains. That is priceless info by itself. Given that I am on a mooring, I probably would have tried that on my deck. Now I know to get my boat to the dock.

Can I take a hacksaw and just cut through 7/8" chain. Would it take 3, minutes, 30 minutes, or 300 minutes. Don't know, never tried it, but hoping someone here knows if I post.

Could I just take chisel and hammer and break the shackle? No idea. Never tried it. Angle grinder. Sure, but don't own one. Bolt cutters. Mabye, but I have 18" or so ones, would they work?

It's why I asked. Too bad some people can't answer without making assumptions about people and things. It's hard for you to conceive that someone hasn't used a "whatever it is they are asking about"? Not me, whether it is a hacksaw or micrometer, no one is an expert in everything. I am willing to give advice on what I am expert in without condescension. I want people to learn, not feel humiliated that they haven't had the experience.

Been out, so...

If it's to me you're referring, then I apologize for humiliating you (though I'm not sure why pointing out your lack of knowledge in this--- both stated and implied by you--- to others should be humiliating). I'm not going back to look, but it seems I remember you mentioning that you would just let a yard guy do it if you couldn't get it off. If you had to ask, then that implies that you don't know...

Of course, anyone who is familiar with these matters, will look at the picture you posted, depicting mild surface rust, and the information you provided, stating the usage, and will assume that, not being an 'expert', you may not be familiar with square drive fittings, or the normal hierarchy of efficiency, which in this case would be unscrew the shackle if you can, and if you can't unscrew it, cut it off. Anyone who suggests that the first tool they go to for removing disassembleable fitments because they 'appear' to be frozen is a grinder and cutting wheel is just not to be taken seriously...

To hacksaw the thing off, get a good stiff hacksaw frame with a 14 to 18 TPI (tooth per inch) blade, if you're on deck (you can put a drop cloth down to catch the cuttings or just vacuum them up if you have a dustbuster), put a little tension of the chain to hold the shackle steady, and begin the cut by drawing slowly backwards (the teeth on the blade face forward) with a light downward pressure. After the initial backward stroke of about 4-5 inches, push forward with a light-medium downward pressure, repeat and continue. For a 1/2" shackle should take about a minute or two.

The hardest thing is holding the damn thing steady, if you can't tension it in a windlass, then a vise is good, failing that a big pair of vise grips or channel locks, (with someone else to hold them, for a beginner) is good.

(And no, I'm not being facetious in this fairly detailed description. Cutting with a hacksaw is a skill like any other, and needs to be approached as such. It is quite satisfying and pleasurable to cut steel with a good, properly tensioned hacksaw and a sharp blade...)

And, just for reference, the picture below shows badly rusted shackles. Note that one of them actually unscrewed before breaking, and I know it was tight when it was put into service (semi-permanent anchor), because I tightened it. Just goes to show you never can tell...

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

. . . The hardest thing is holding the damn thing steady, if you can't tension it in a windlass, then a vise is good, failing that a big pair of vise grips or channel locks, (with someone else to hold them, for a beginner) is good.
.

A vice on a board is almost essential for this kind of job, the heavier the better.

Vice grips and a helper can work, but can be very awkward and also somewhat risky to people's hands. I don't think I would even try it with channel locks unless I was desperate.

To do it effectively with a hacksaw, the work needs to be held firmly. This is one reason why an angle grinder is faster and easier. Still has to be held, and you have to be really careful that the work doesn't get slung out, possibly injuring someone. But in holding the work which is being cut with an angle grinder, you are not counteracting a strong back and forth impulse of the hacksaw, so it's much easier. In fact, just tensioning the chain with the windlass will probably do it, if you use the angle grinder (make sure and tie the anchor down so it doesn't fall out when the shackle is cut! ).

[atoll]

there is a reason why this type of shackle has been used,or modified.

my guess is if you look at your bow roller assembly you will find that there is not enough clearance for a conventional shackle to pass without the protruding pin binding on the bow roller assembly.

as jim said replace with a propriatry brand ,ideally with a swivel incorparated,using blind pins,use loctite and for added security use a center punch to lock the threads and pins