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Old 08-03-2016, 11:39   #16
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Re: How And How Much To Repare This?

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Stephano-
I think it is a subtlety in translation, in the US we say "wood paint" to mean a common opaque paint used for house exteriors, porch floors, walls, ceilings, wood furniture painted in various colors such as gray, green, red, or white.
The interior woodwork on a boat is usually "stained" not "painted". Wood stain would be typically a mixture of pigments in a transparent base, like oil or shellac or varnish.
So assuming that you mean "wood stain", you may be able to get the exact information from Dufour, I believe they are still very much in business although they have never been large in the US market.
If you cannot get the answer from Dufour, or the products they use are not available to you, it is common for woodworkers to match the color of stains by eye. They will recognize the type of wood and general color of the stain, and then they will use similar stains, mixed and blended and tested on a sample of the new wood, until they find a combination that matches well.
Any carpenter or cabinetmaker that works on home or boat interiors or floors either knows how to do this, or can refer you to someone who does. It mainly requires some patience, and buying several different cans of stain, then just being patient about trying to get a match by mixing them. I suspect that if you removed one of the interior panels, and brought it to any woodworking shop along with the new unfinished panel, they would be quite reasonable about doing the job for you. One less thing for you to worry about that way.
Yes you get it, thanks...Paint i'd meant whatever goes on raw materials, transparent paint=stain

And from what i save getting the "cheap" boat i would spend it for professional woodworker for repair the boat, ecc..With 15k euro difference, if the boat is ok meaning no grounding, engine-saildrive are ok, eccc (ex charter boat)i could pay many professionist to help me to get the boat in perfect shape
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Old 08-03-2016, 11:41   #17
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Re: How And How Much To Repare This?

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Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle View Post
Makes you wonder

Partial answer in the before answer...even i was valutating get one in a better shape and at the end is pratically the same (except some they do not have teak deck)
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Old 08-03-2016, 13:43   #18
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Re: How And How Much To Repare This?

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Originally Posted by stefano_ita View Post
Yes, i will get to visit the boat in a month (pratically ALL the week end i see at least 3-4 boat, this since 3-4 months, looking quite in the deep of every boat...)

Price is very very good (the lowest on the market...) i was also poiting for a bit better boat but no teak deck, and add flexiteak on the deck...I still wait to visit the boat personally tho...

LOL I appreciate your honest opinion no problem
Best of luck. Sales price is not that important condition is.
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Old 08-03-2016, 14:14   #19
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Re: How And How Much To Repair This?

unless you want to spend a lot of time scrubbing, Teka Teak Bleach and bronze wool is the way to go
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Old 08-03-2016, 15:42   #20
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Re: How And How Much To Repair This?

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Originally Posted by bsurvey View Post
unless you want to spend a lot of time scrubbing, Teka Teak Bleach and bronze wool is the way to go

Thanks, i did not know about it
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Old 08-03-2016, 17:35   #21
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Re: How And How Much To Repare This?

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Originally Posted by stefano_ita View Post
Thanks all for the many answer.

About interior i wrote bad in english, sorry, i'd mean sand a very little bit and varnish it...i guess it would be the transparent one...did i miss something?

About teak deck, first, big cleaning , brushing very light brushig perpendicular from wood grains, then sika oil if it's all look clean, otherwise very very light sanding, drying, and teak oil...

How much does according to you does a professionel will ask to clean-sand the teak deck and interior very small sanding only where is worn?( chart table edge and down the aft cabin's panel) 1000 euro teak deck and 500 for interior?

Thanks
Ste
My suggestion is that with the teak that badly 'tramlined' (i.e) the grooving caused by the softer, pithy parts of the timber being eroded) you will be removing an awful lot of wood, sanding it down until all of the wood is clean and bright again. From our experience, Semco is the way to go. The cleaner is basically sodium hydroxide as far as I can ascertain (i.e. alkaline). Yes, it will wash out the softer parts of the timber, but I suggest those are pretty well gone now anyway. It will clean all of that black mould etc away, and then when you use the Semco brightener, it neutralises the cleaner, and the acid content really works wonders on the appearance. You will be left with teak that looks new again from a distance, but certainly still be tramlined close up.

Then give it a sand if you wish, to bring back some degree of smoothness to it, but as above, don't try to get back to fully smooth, or you will have such thin decking, it will not have enough rigidity to lay flat and be held down with the fixings.

Final part - unless you want all of that teak to go back the way it is now (and worse), after a couple of days drying in the hot sun, repair the caulking (the "black stuff"), sand where needed (especially with the tramlining you have, you will need to mask very well to avoid getting the caulking down into the grooves of the tramlining - so you may not need to sand the new caulking). Then treat with two or three coats of Semco teak sealer. Once that is done, one coat at the beginning, and possibly one coat at the end of each season, will maintain your decks for years.

The alternative is to just clean it and keep washing it, but already, too much timber has been washed away - that's why we spend two to three hours per year (yes, that's all it takes on a 50' yacht) to keep our teak looking like it was laid yesterday. Below is what it looks like to date (we do use a Winter cover also - well worth it to keep the whole boat looking new while we are back in the 'real world').

Teak decks look lovely when they are maintained properly, and these days, that takes little more effort than does washing the boat down.

As to the interior, before you start sanding and re-varnishing everything, I suggest you look for a water-based stain (spirit-based stain absorbs too much - you will never be able to control it), to match the colour you have down there now. Rub this into the scratches etc and then evaluate how bad the over-all look is. It may be that this brings the blemishes up enough that you would be happy with it. If so, then go over with a rubbing oil, which will be absorbed into the (now stained) scratches, and just wipe off the varnished areas.

If the damage /wear and tear is not too bad, then this will be a whole lot less work and expense than fully sanding everything down to timber and re-finishing. For that to be done properly, you will need to remove every panel that is removable for the sanding to reach all areas or each panel. Then after staining, the varnish should be sprayed.

On that note, the varnish, is really a lacquer, and should be a two-component version - at least in areas where people are going to touch it. Normal air-dry varnish or lacquer will over time soften with skin-oils. The galley and heads areas are especially prone, where people are touching the wood-work regularly. The lacquer you have there now, is probably UV-cured - effectively the same outcome as two-component lacquer.

I hope that helps. Enjoy your new boat - whether this one or another

David
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Old 09-03-2016, 03:03   #22
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Re: How And How Much To Repair This?

David B. many thanks for you answer, very exhaustive

About interior i just want to fix the small spot where looks worn, without take away all the panels, your idea is very good, to "fill" the scrath with transparent water based varnisher

And congrats for the teak, look like new (how old is it?)
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Old 09-03-2016, 05:23   #23
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Re: How And How Much To Repare This?

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Originally Posted by stefano_ita View Post
(except some they do not have teak deck)
Personally, I would prefer a boat without a teak deck ...
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Old 09-03-2016, 07:12   #24
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Re: How And How Much To Repare This?

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Personally, I would prefer a boat without a teak deck ...

Do you mean for mainteniance issue or you don't like teak (or even false teak) how it does look?
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Old 09-03-2016, 17:37   #25
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Re: How And How Much To Repair This?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefano_ita View Post
David B. many thanks for you answer, very exhaustive

About interior i just want to fix the small spot where looks worn, without take away all the panels, your idea is very good, to "fill" the scrath with transparent water based varnisher

And congrats for the teak, look like new (how old is it?)
To make sure there is no confusion, the water-based product I referred to is stain. This is a solution of pigment to colour the wood to give it a richer tone. It is not varnish. It actually does not need to be water-based, but should not be a dye-based stain - that really absorbs into the wood, and for scratch removal, will probably make it worse.

The key is to ensure the stain is pigment-based. Water-based or not, it does not matter as long as it is pigment-based. The colour you get when it is still wet on the wood, is similar to the colour you get when you rub the wiping oil into it, so don't worry if it is looking too light when it is dry - it will darken again with the wiping oil.

I only suggest wiping oil as it is a lot easier to remove from the areas where it is not needed - it just wipes off. However if you prefer to use a clear varnish, you can wipe off with a cloth moistened with mineral turpentine. Note that if you wanted to use a lacquer, that would be a problem, as then you would need the cloth moistened with lacquer thinners, and that will most likely damage the good areas when you wipe over.

So, if you are just wanting to fix small spots where it is worn, then this is the way to go, but try the stain in an area you don't normally see to make sure the depth of colour, and the amount of colour is correct. Better to thin with water/mineral turpentine and put extra on, than to find the first time you apply, it is too much.

I doubt you can get it over there, but we find this Gilly Stephenson's Scratch Remover to work well for us - perhaps there is something equivalent where you are.

http://gillystephenson.com/inc/sdetail/303/312

In answer to your question, the boat was built in 2011. We left it until 2013 to clean the (now grey) decks, as we did not have time, and had not finished our research into the best product to use. We finished cleaning with the Semco products at night under lights. In the morning when we saw the dry decks in daylight it was 'Wow !' Looked like they were new again. Then two days later we applied two coats of Semco sealer, and a third coat at the end of the season.

Lately it is just one coat at the beginning of each season after we wash the decks down with a very soft brush, and freshwater.
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Old 09-03-2016, 17:40   #26
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Re: How And How Much To Repare This?

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Originally Posted by stefano_ita View Post
Do you mean for mainteniance issue or you don't like teak (or even false teak) how it does look?
I love the look - but it's extra maintenance and when screwed on, it can be a pain with leaks etc. Just not worth it imho, tho I have seen a few boats with a great quality very thick real teak, but that' s rare.

We had a boat with false teak as you called it; looked great and easy to keep clean. I'd buy that if it didn't cost about as much as I paid for the whole boat, haha!
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Old 09-03-2016, 18:05   #27
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Re: How And How Much To Repare This?

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Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle View Post
I love the look - but it's extra maintenance and when screwed on, it can be a pain with leaks etc. Just not worth it imho, tho I have seen a few boats with a great quality very thick real teak, but that' s rare.

We had a boat with false teak as you called it; looked great and easy to keep clean. I'd buy that if it didn't cost about as much as I paid for the whole boat, haha!
Teak decks are for the rich. They look great if maintained. I don't think they are for the average person. I almost made a social oops with guy. Sorry ladies.

At any rate the leaks are not worth it. Just routing them out repaying (sp?) and replacing bungs is not my cup of tea. Guess I'll let my 24/7 captain take care of the small things.
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Old 09-03-2016, 18:26   #28
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Re: How And How Much To Repair This?

I am not sure what the problem is here. The top pic is simply worn timber veneer, easy self repair and update by putting lamipanel replacement in, either directly over the top or just peel off the veneer. Assuming the ply underneath is okay as it does not look bad at all. worst case just replace the ply also, however I doubt that would be required.
The middle pic just looks like slightly warn areas, just give a light sand and re-varnish, this is nothing more than areas of wear and tear.
the teak deck is slightly out of my experience, and from the pic it is not easy to tell the actual coverage area and looking closely the sika seems mostly intact. A light sand with a sander would clean that up nicely. However as I understand it teak, especially outside in the elements will discolor anyway and gives traction. You could just also varnish it, however then it becomes a safety hazard.
My advice on the Teak, do very little to it if it is essentially intact, easy to Google hints and tips on maintaining teak decks.
Also, pics you have been sent in posts of teak decking on newer yachts is much different to teak on older yachts. It looks pretty because its new, it is often veneer look alike, not actual teak, or is teak veneer. The teak in the pic you posted may well be solid if it is an older yacht, therefore very expensive and I would not worry if it looks a little warn as it should actually look like this (a grey) not all polished. Light sand to clean up, fill areas with sika if required and enjoy. Again, I am no expert on this. My Cheoy Lee was fully decked in teak however removed in favor of paint because teak can eventually lift and cause problems. Worth someone having a look at it.

All in all, everything there is fairly simple do it yourself repair. And your issues seem mostly cosmetic. It's an older yacht, not a show piece. If you are after perfect, buy new.
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Old 10-03-2016, 04:51   #29
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Re: How And How Much To Repair This?

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Originally Posted by David B View Post
To make sure there is no confusion, the water-based product I referred to is stain. This is a solution of pigment to colour the wood to give it a richer tone. It is not varnish. It actually does not need to be water-based, but should not be a dye-based stain - that really absorbs into the wood, and for scratch removal, will probably make it worse.

The key is to ensure the stain is pigment-based. Water-based or not, it does not matter as long as it is pigment-based. The colour you get when it is still wet on the wood, is similar to the colour you get when you rub the wiping oil into it, so don't worry if it is looking too light when it is dry - it will darken again with the wiping oil.

I only suggest wiping oil as it is a lot easier to remove from the areas where it is not needed - it just wipes off. However if you prefer to use a clear varnish, you can wipe off with a cloth moistened with mineral turpentine. Note that if you wanted to use a lacquer, that would be a problem, as then you would need the cloth moistened with lacquer thinners, and that will most likely damage the good areas when you wipe over.

So, if you are just wanting to fix small spots where it is worn, then this is the way to go, but try the stain in an area you don't normally see to make sure the depth of colour, and the amount of colour is correct. Better to thin with water/mineral turpentine and put extra on, than to find the first time you apply, it is too much.

I doubt you can get it over there, but we find this Gilly Stephenson's Scratch Remover to work well for us - perhaps there is something equivalent where you are.

http://gillystephenson.com/inc/sdetail/303/312

In answer to your question, the boat was built in 2011. We left it until 2013 to clean the (now grey) decks, as we did not have time, and had not finished our research into the best product to use. We finished cleaning with the Semco products at night under lights. In the morning when we saw the dry decks in daylight it was 'Wow !' Looked like they were new again. Then two days later we applied two coats of Semco sealer, and a third coat at the end of the season.

Lately it is just one coat at the beginning of each season after we wash the decks down with a very soft brush, and freshwater.
Many thanks for the big post
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Old 10-03-2016, 04:54   #30
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Re: How And How Much To Repair This?

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Originally Posted by CheoyLee39 View Post
I am not sure what the problem is here. The top pic is simply worn timber veneer, easy self repair and update by putting lamipanel replacement in, either directly over the top or just peel off the veneer. Assuming the ply underneath is okay as it does not look bad at all. worst case just replace the ply also, however I doubt that would be required.
The middle pic just looks like slightly warn areas, just give a light sand and re-varnish, this is nothing more than areas of wear and tear.
the teak deck is slightly out of my experience, and from the pic it is not easy to tell the actual coverage area and looking closely the sika seems mostly intact. A light sand with a sander would clean that up nicely. However as I understand it teak, especially outside in the elements will discolor anyway and gives traction. You could just also varnish it, however then it becomes a safety hazard.
My advice on the Teak, do very little to it if it is essentially intact, easy to Google hints and tips on maintaining teak decks.
Also, pics you have been sent in posts of teak decking on newer yachts is much different to teak on older yachts. It looks pretty because its new, it is often veneer look alike, not actual teak, or is teak veneer. The teak in the pic you posted may well be solid if it is an older yacht, therefore very expensive and I would not worry if it looks a little warn as it should actually look like this (a grey) not all polished. Light sand to clean up, fill areas with sika if required and enjoy. Again, I am no expert on this. My Cheoy Lee was fully decked in teak however removed in favor of paint because teak can eventually lift and cause problems. Worth someone having a look at it.

All in all, everything there is fairly simple do it yourself repair. And your issues seem mostly cosmetic. It's an older yacht, not a show piece. If you are after perfect, buy new.
Thanks, this is what i thought before posting, the boat is a 2009 dufour 405 used in charter, so not much old but intensively used....Just some hours/days/weeks of DIY and it will be like almost new

You have PM
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