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Old 08-04-2016, 08:15   #1
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Hose for bilge pump

Just looking for a quick sanity check here.

We're adding a secondary bilge pump (4000GPH) that takes 2" ID hose. As with all things boat related I'm amazed with the different price options. I can go with a non-wire reinforced hose for about $9.34 per foot from WM or a wire reinforced hose for $17.54 per foot.

My head says for something as important as a highflow secondary bilge pump I should probably go with the wire reinforced hose but DAMN it's expensive. Should be VERY rarely used, but if it's ever needed...it needs to WORK.

Thoughts?
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Old 08-04-2016, 08:20   #2
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Re: Hose for bilge pump

I don't see the reason for wire reinforced.
My secondary came with the boat, is plumbed with what almost looks like cheap plastic vacuum cleaner hose, I need to replace it but haven't yet as it hasn't come down on the list of things to do yet.
Go to WM and look at that cheap stuff and then I think you'll feel better, there is pretty much 0 pressure on the hose and temp of course is low, it just need to be long lasting and with some durability I believe.
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Old 12-04-2016, 08:49   #3
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Re: Hose for bilge pump

For the record, we did go with the hose without the wire. Only problem we ran into was when creating the loop up high in the lazerette, it wanted to kink despite the fact that we where using the (wired) engine exhaust hose as a guide. However, we bought a couple hose clamps (3 actually) and used them the squeeze the hose into shape. Actually worked surprisingly well and kept the shape of the hose true through the curve, which was our only problem.

That saved us several hundred $$ and we now have a monster crash pump, on a float switch, with an obnoxious buzzer and read light. May we never need it...

Thanks again,
EB
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Old 12-04-2016, 08:54   #4
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Re: Hose for bilge pump

The most important thing with bilge pumps is to use hose with a smooth interior wall. never use the stuff labelled as builge hose. it breaks too easily and the corrugations on the inside create turbulence which interferes with the ability of the pump to push water at its highest rate!
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Old 12-04-2016, 09:27   #5
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Re: Hose for bilge pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErBrown View Post
For the record, we did go with the hose without the wire. Only problem we ran into was when creating the loop up high in the lazerette, it wanted to kink despite the fact that we where using the (wired) engine exhaust hose as a guide. However, we bought a couple hose clamps (3 actually) and used them the squeeze the hose into shape. Actually worked surprisingly well and kept the shape of the hose true through the curve, which was our only problem.

That saved us several hundred $$ and we now have a monster crash pump, on a float switch, with an obnoxious buzzer and read light. May we never need it...

Thanks again,
EB
Plumbing supply stores or even some home centers have devices that make that curve in a hose without it collapsing. They are intended for PEX and such. Another alternative is an antsiphon device that has the curve built in. Check West Marine for that.

Your loop may be fine now but it may collapse in the future. I had that problem with a hose with a too tight loop in it.
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Old 12-04-2016, 10:30   #6
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Re: Hose for bilge pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErBrown View Post
For the record, we did go with the hose without the wire. Only problem we ran into was when creating the loop up high in the lazerette, it wanted to kink despite the fact that we where using the (wired) engine exhaust hose as a guide. However, we bought a couple hose clamps (3 actually) and used them the squeeze the hose into shape. Actually worked surprisingly well and kept the shape of the hose true through the curve, which was our only problem.

That saved us several hundred $$ and we now have a monster crash pump, on a float switch, with an obnoxious buzzer and read light. May we never need it...

Thanks again,
EB
That's great, and congrats on the successful install!


I would not think of that pump (a Rule 4000, right?) as a "monster crash pump", however. The 16,000 liter per hour rating is optimistic, and even that will not keep up with a modest broken through hull.

We do have two Rule 4000's secondary bilge pumps, and you have to have something like that, but it's a "volume pump", not a "crash pump". The crash pump is something altogether different -- on our boat it's a 42,000 liters per hour trash pump discharging through a 3" fire hose. This one: WilTec - Trash Water Pump V2200F with float switch 42000l/h with 2200W Trash Water Pump V2200F with float switch 42000l/h with only 2200W 50988
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Old 12-04-2016, 11:03   #7
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Re: Hose for bilge pump

Well, it's a monster compared our 3 other pumps. But I guess there's always something bigger and better out there.
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Old 12-04-2016, 11:09   #8
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Re: Hose for bilge pump

Why not get a reinforced radiator hose from an auto supply store? They're rated to handle high pressure/high temp flow and I'm sure (hopefully) will be less than WM prices.
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Old 12-04-2016, 11:29   #9
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Re: Hose for bilge pump

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Originally Posted by ErBrown View Post
Well, it's a monster compared our 3 other pumps. But I guess there's always something bigger and better out there.
Yes, but what's important is not what one pump is, relative to other pumps, but what one pump can do, versus the typical leak you may have.

Boats often sink, maybe usually sink, when the water rises uncontrollably and the crew can't find the leak under the rising water. One medium size through hull a couple feet under water, will pour out more water than a Rule 4000 will pump in realistic conditions. It MIGHT be enough -- it might slow down the rate of rising of the water enough to give you a chance to find and plug the leak. But it might not. Also, normal bilge pumps have a high tendency to clog up in a crisis, because of all the carp which is released into the bilge water, when the water level rises.


So although we also have Rule 4000's, and think they are great pumps and great to have on board, we decided to add a true crash pump with enough capacity to deal with a broken off medium size through hull, or a blown shaft seal, etc., and reduce the water level. Also a trash pump which will macerate bilge carp without clogging up. We think that this will increase the odds that we could find and deal with a leak, before it overwhelms us. YMMV.
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Old 12-04-2016, 11:39   #10
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Re: Hose for bilge pump

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Well, it's a monster compared our 3 other pumps. But I guess there's always something bigger and better out there.
Three other pumps? You have four bilge pumps?
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Old 12-04-2016, 11:43   #11
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Re: Hose for bilge pump

Technically, yes. Primary bilge pump, Shower sump pump located in the bilge as well, Whale gusher hand manual pump, and now the new secondary pump (I'll stop using the term crash pump).
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Old 12-04-2016, 12:13   #12
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Re: Hose for bilge pump

Ok, I had forgotten about the manual one. I guess I have four too counting the shower pump.
My shower pump is a diaphragm pump mounted in the engine room, its a whole lot easier to get to there as I have to clean the filter pretty frequently.
My manual one doesn't work, I assume a valve is stuck, figure it needs rebuilding due to age.
Surely there is a re-build kit, anybody know where or just call Hopkins Carter?

I think majority of boats that sink, do so at the slip, a secondary bilge pump is I believe good insurance.
I stupidly left my bilge pump off, I have no idea why I would have turned the switch off, but I guess I did, cause on returning to the boat after being gone for awhile, I noticed the switch in the off position
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Old 12-04-2016, 12:35   #13
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Re: Hose for bilge pump

Yeah, the factory primary switch is in a horrible place, at least on our boat. It can be kicked from auto to off pretty easily. That's definitely on my list of things to fix, its hard wired to the batteries (no breaker to flip off but of course fused). That being said I intent to change it to a similar setup as the secondary we just added, again direct wired but the only options are auto/manual. Must remove wires to turn it off. To me that seems like a much better option. We've used our manual a few times just to do it, works well but I'd be interested to see what you find on the rebuild.
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Old 12-04-2016, 13:09   #14
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Re: Hose for bilge pump

I have 4 plus the shower sump pump and I don't feel "over pumped". Here is why, I pulled the hose off an 1.5" through hull to clean it out thinking I would let it run into the bilge as a little rinse out. When I broke through the crud blocking it the volume of water that was pouring into the boat astounded me. It ran right into the boat right next to my Rule 2000gpm pump and it didn't have a chance to keep up and I doubt if 3 of them would have. I believe these pumps are rated with smooth hose (which I have) and no lift. Way slower than rated when installed. So in addition to the 3+ shower sump I added a big whale Gulper as well. I also discovered that two of my pumps were "Y ed" into one hose and the check valve stuck and rendered one of the pumps moot. Now every pump has it's own hose, it's own switch and the Whale is wired with a counter, a bilge alarm and without going through the main battery disconnect switch.

It's not paranoia if they ARE out to get you...
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Old 13-04-2016, 06:08   #15
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Re: Hose for bilge pump

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I have 4 plus the shower sump pump and I don't feel "over pumped". Here is why, I pulled the hose off an 1.5" through hull to clean it out thinking I would let it run into the bilge as a little rinse out. When I broke through the crud blocking it the volume of water that was pouring into the boat astounded me. It ran right into the boat right next to my Rule 2000gpm pump and it didn't have a chance to keep up and I doubt if 3 of them would have. I believe these pumps are rated with smooth hose (which I have) and no lift. Way slower than rated when installed. So in addition to the 3+ shower sump I added a big whale Gulper as well. I also discovered that two of my pumps were "Y ed" into one hose and the check valve stuck and rendered one of the pumps moot. Now every pump has it's own hose, it's own switch and the Whale is wired with a counter, a bilge alarm and without going through the main battery disconnect switch.

It's not paranoia if they ARE out to get you...
You are correct, they are rated at zero lift, but some manufacturers also list the output at various levels of lift and the drop in output is astonishing! Most 2000 GPH bilge pumps output is cut in half at 7ft of head!!!
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