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Old 17-10-2003, 10:25   #1
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Holes

I have just patched a large hole in my hull. It was where and old saildrive had been installed. It's plugged but I am having a terrible time getting the glass smooth.. Any ideas that might help?

SAnding and sanding Jim
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Old 17-10-2003, 19:45   #2
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Two Words ...

Belt Sander

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Old 22-10-2003, 04:48   #3
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When working "overhead", you often get sags & drips. Try using a "thickened" resin for your top coat(s).

How did you effect the Saildrive hole closure?

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Old 22-10-2003, 05:41   #4
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I assume that you have ground back the glass on a slope between 1:8 to 1:20 angle (depending on who you believe and whether you used epoxy or polyester resin. Polyester requires over double the contact area.) and have used some kind of jury rigged mold to get close to fair with your glass work. If you have then I would thicken the resin with Microballoons to the consistency of thick peanut butter. I would put the first coat of filler on with a notched trowel. (I typically use a plastic squeegee with 1/8" to 1/4" deep notches evenly spaced every 1/4" or so. I apply hold the squeegee roughly square to the surface and try to pull it in comparatively straight lines. Covering an area that extends beyond the edges of the patch. While the resin is still green (kicked off but not fully hardened) I use a body plane (Red Devil perferated plane) to knock down the ridges to close to fair but leave a little excess for fine tuning after final cure. Working carefully with very course paper I then sand the ridges to final height. Sanding the comparatively small contact area of the ridges goes quite quickly so you need a flexible batten and you need to check yourself quite often. Once the ridges are fair it is quite easy to full the grooves with microballon thickened resins using flat squeegee pressed hard against the tops of the ridges. You now should have a comparatively fair surface that with a little bit of sanding should be ready for a barrier coat.

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Old 22-10-2003, 07:11   #5
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Maybe on the next hole (?)

I got the impression that the filling patchwork had been done. If so, & if your patch material is well proud of the surface, a belt sander can save you hours of labor in bringing it down close to flush, then finish by hand sanding with finer grit papers.

The above posts correctly point out that proper filling to begin with will greatly minimize later shaping/sanding & also eliminate the threat of material hungry power tools. I especially like Jeffís suggestion of troweling in the first layer, shaping ridges, then using them to depth gauge the next/final fill. I'm good at this kind of stuff & am myself adding that to the bag as a new trick (thanks Jeff).

Other examples (I've been through many houses in the last several years) I've gotten to where I simply don't sand drywall spackle. I apply it carefully to begin with & use moist terry cloth hand towels to achieve a final surface prepped for primer & paint.

Similar thing with auto body putty (I personally have avoided fiberglass & haven't even used it on cars, I'd rather cut & weld & use steel where others would use 'glass). With putty I shape it carefully to begin with, then use a selection of the above described perforated plane(s) to establish the surface as the bondo hardens. By the time it's hard enough to resist hand working to any degree the surface is there & requires only spot filling & detail sanding, not heavy stock removal.

Similar thing with epoxy wood fillers, etc, etc. The idea is to get it as close as possible to it's final shape while still readily workable or, as Jeff suggests, reduce the surface area to be shaped, then fill final.

It's easy to get impatient & slop in filler materials. Further, the temptation to lay it in well proud of the surface (just in case) can be almost irresistible. Youíll find with experience though, that itís far easier to fill with restraint, then spot fill minor voids & hollows than it is to remove heavy material. Putting your time & effort into the filling phase of the project is well worth it in saving time, material, effort & mess.

If, however, you're already past that point it's hard to beat a high rpm belt sander with a course belt for stock removal. Avoid long grinds on one particular spot, the heat build up will be fast but in any reasonable situation long grinds just arenít necessary, the material that you need gone will be dust in no time flat.

As with anything of this nature, if you're unfamiliar with a given process & the tools/materials required, itís always best to first get in some practice on something that you don't care about. First time use of a belt sander can be comedic, instructive & (or) highly destructive. Avoiding the hull of your boat until you've ground down sacrificial stuff & have a feel for the tool can help to keep that first touch-off in the comedic & instructive realm where it belongs.

If you get really good with patching & filling in general youíll find that you have no need for the violence of a belt sander. Or maybe youíll get really good with the sander while you master efficient filling & end up using it for things like rapidly scribing in cabinet ears (match line to an imperfect wall surface) like I do.

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Old 23-12-2013, 00:32   #6
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Re: Maybe on the next hole (?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubledour View Post
I got the impression that the filling patchwork had been done. If so, & if your patch material is well proud of the surface, a belt sander can save you hours of labor in bringing it down close to flush, then finish by hand sanding with finer grit papers.

The above posts correctly point out that proper filling to begin with will greatly minimize later shaping/sanding & also eliminate the threat of material hungry power tools. I especially like Jeffís suggestion of troweling in the first layer, shaping ridges, then using them to depth gauge the next/final fill. I'm good at this kind of stuff & am myself adding that to the bag as a new trick (thanks Jeff).

Other examples (I've been through many houses in the last several years) I've gotten to where I simply don't sand drywall spackle. I apply it carefully to begin with & use moist terry cloth hand towels to achieve a final surface prepped for primer & paint.

Similar thing with auto body putty (I personally have avoided fiberglass & haven't even used it on cars, I'd rather cut & weld & use steel where others would use 'glass). With putty I shape it carefully to begin with, then use a selection of the above described perforated plane(s) to establish the surface as the bondo hardens. By the time it's hard enough to resist hand working to any degree the surface is there & requires only spot filling & detail sanding, not heavy stock removal.

Similar thing with epoxy wood fillers, etc, etc. The idea is to get it as close as possible to it's final shape while still readily workable or, as Jeff suggests, reduce the surface area to be shaped, then fill final.

It's easy to get impatient & slop in filler materials. Further, the temptation to lay it in well proud of the surface (just in case) can be almost irresistible. Youíll find with experience though, that itís far easier to fill with restraint, then spot fill minor voids & hollows than it is to remove heavy material. Putting your time & effort into the filling phase of the project is well worth it in saving time, material, effort & mess.

If, however, you're already past that point it's hard to beat a high rpm belt sander with a course belt for stock removal. Avoid long grinds on one particular spot, the heat build up will be fast but in any reasonable situation long grinds just arenít necessary, the material that you need gone will be dust in no time flat.

As with anything of this nature, if you're unfamiliar with a given process & the tools/materials required, itís always best to first get in some practice on something that you don't care about. First time use of a belt sander can be comedic, instructive & (or) highly destructive. Avoiding the hull of your boat until you've ground down sacrificial stuff & have a feel for the tool can help to keep that first touch-off in the comedic & instructive realm where it belongs.

If you get really good with patching & filling in general youíll find that you have no need for the violence of a belt sander. Or maybe youíll get really good with the sander while you master efficient filling & end up using it for things like rapidly scribing in cabinet ears (match line to an imperfect wall surface) like I do.

Troubledour
I use the gold Bondo.I've found to be lighter and stronger than the red.I use Cab-O-sil spun silica to increase my resin viscosity.I'll use as little catalyst(hardener) as possible.The more you use the hotter it gets.Thats when it'll run,when it generates heat.I mix it as little as possible.Thats when you get air bubbles and cut your working time.I've had good luck with an air file.Not as destructive as a belt sander.I usually spray a heavy primer on it(Dupont 30-S for example) It'll fill air holes and when you sand it off,the grey spots will be low spots.
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Old 23-12-2013, 04:40   #7
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Re: Holes

I think after ten years the OP has either resolved the issue or sold the boat.
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Old 23-12-2013, 04:51   #8
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Re: Holes

Or it sank.
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Old 23-12-2013, 07:09   #9
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Re: Holes

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I think after ten years the OP has either resolved the issue or sold the boat.
Yeah,I would imagine so.I've gotta learn to pay attention like little details like the date.How come people are still reading it?I did..
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Old 23-12-2013, 07:16   #10
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Re: Holes

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Yeah,I would imagine so.I've gotta learn to pay attention like little details like the date.How come people are still reading it?I did..
Once you add another post it pops up on the portal. That's why people read it or maybe some folks are interested in holes and found it in a search. We've all done this before especially after someone resurrects the thread.
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Old 23-12-2013, 09:24   #11
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Re: Holes

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Once you add another post it pops up on the portal. That's why people read it or maybe some folks are interested in holes and found it in a search. We've all done this before especially after someone resurrects the thread.
Thanks for the info.I just signed up here cause I stripped 39 years of fiberglass off a mahogany planked hull and I have to decide how I want to finish it.Seemed like a good place to get the latest way of doing it.I stripped the whole hull down to the wood and can't decide which way to go.I had done a West system kinda deal years ago,ang forgotten how beautiful the planked hull was.Found a lot of useful info.Shroud rollers..I had made my own.The latest electronics,stuff like that.When you're a long way from home port you don't get much of a chance to learn stuff unless you talk to people.
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Old 23-12-2013, 09:40   #12
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Re: Holes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pegleg Sands View Post
Thanks for the info.I just signed up here cause I stripped 39 years of fiberglass off a mahogany planked hull and I have to decide how I want to finish it.Seemed like a good place to get the latest way of doing it.I stripped the whole hull down to the wood and can't decide which way to go.I had done a West system kinda deal years ago,ang forgotten how beautiful the planked hull was.Found a lot of useful info.Shroud rollers..I had made my own.The latest electronics,stuff like that.When you're a long way from home port you don't get much of a chance to learn stuff unless you talk to people.
There are TONS of resin/glass gurus here.... Try posting a separate new question.... They WILL show up....

AND PASSIONATELY support their conflicting opinions! (I have favorites, but I will not poke the beehive here)

Mannnnn.... wouldn't that mahogany planking look AWESOME sealed with clear epoxy/207.....
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Old 23-12-2013, 10:33   #13
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Re: Holes

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There are TONS of resin/glass gurus here.... Try posting a separate new question.... They WILL show up....

AND PASSIONATELY support their conflicting opinions! (I have favorites, but I will not poke the beehive here)

Mannnnn.... wouldn't that mahogany planking look AWESOME sealed with clear epoxy/207.....
That's what I've been considering!I shot some clear acrylic over it just so I didn't have bare wood while I decided how to go.She's indoors so I'm npt in a great hurry.It was bronze fastened and the planks are in great shape.A few new dowels and some caulking!!!I just refinished the topsides and it looks incredible.Teak decks over fiberglassed marine plywood.She stays totally dry.Hinckleys were good about that,anyway.I've got two Siemens solar panels.They work great but they sure look ugly now...
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Old 24-12-2013, 10:32   #14
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Re: Holes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pegleg Sands View Post
That's what I've been considering!I shot some clear acrylic over it just so I didn't have bare wood while I decided how to go.She's indoors so I'm npt in a great hurry.It was bronze fastened and the planks are in great shape.A few new dowels and some caulking!!!I just refinished the topsides and it looks incredible.Teak decks over fiberglassed marine plywood.She stays totally dry.Hinckleys were good about that,anyway.I've got two Siemens solar panels.They work great but they sure look ugly now...
I'll bet she looks amazing... Now, we just need some opinions from the experts.... Somebody who has been down this road before...

This is a great boat that deserves what you are putting into her...

Post a new thread with pictures asking for help.... I've mixed 1,000 batches of resin in 50 different compositions.... BUT... There are others here that have resin in their veins.... These are the guys we want to poke...

PS: Dang panels.... Necessity but ugly.... (or is that butt ugly?) If somebody made an old timey steampunk version, I'll bet they couldn't keep up with the demand....
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Old 24-12-2013, 13:13   #15
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Re: Holes

I love the solar panels for maintaining the house batteries,I usually leave the vhf and sometimes radar when I'm anchored just outside a busy nav. channel.They just ain't very pretty.Easy to take off and stick in the V birth.I sistered the ribs in two places cause I put two new fuel tanks in.Tripled my range under power.She came from the factory with only one 36 gal tank.There is epoxy in the fastener holes.Easy to drill out and do it right.The last time she was varnished plank was in 1976 for the huge celebration in NY harbor.After that,I glassed the hull.Just easier.I've still got the wooden masts,too.Been in storage inside for 30 years.They look great, I think I'll take a closer look.I've pretty well talked myself into restoring her. my kid has some pics. if he shows up for Christmas I'll get him to post them.She was actually faster when she was plank showing.Lighter I guess.
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