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Old 26-04-2015, 09:50   #1
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Hole in yacht

Hi my name is Mitch please can someone give me some advice! I have a dufour 1200 ct 45ft ketch. It was recently dropped on the road while being pulled out, it suffered a long split almost 1 metre long! I've been told it can be patched from the outside by the insurance accessor.? I think as to get to the repair from the inside is a very big job, as it is under the fuel tanks and batteries, can you tell me if this kind of repair is sufficient or not? As I don't want to cross an ocean if the patch will fall out or delaminate.:
Please can u help? Thankyou.
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Old 26-04-2015, 09:58   #2
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Re: Hole in yacht

Get a surveyor of your own to inspect and specify proper repair. It should be repaired from the inside and outside. Additionally this kind of damage often jars loose the "furniture" on the inside and sometimes the engine bed etc.
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Old 26-04-2015, 10:15   #3
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Re: Hole in yacht

Welcome aboard Mitch. Sorry to hear such bad news in a first post.

Cheekako has the right of it.

Unfortunately, it is the job of the insurance company to make money for the stockholders, and only secondarily to possibly help you. So their pet assessor suggests a minimal repair.

In order to negotiate effectively with them, you need the documentation a good surveyor can provide you.

You should be prepared that it may cost more than the boat is worth to deconstruct the furniture, and remove whatever is in the way of making the repair on the inside, too. For instance, you may need to sister frames or floors after accessing the big split. You need a boat builder with experience to tell you how it needs to be done if crossing oceans is in your future. Another issue will be what has happened to the keel to hull joint.

Good luck with this one.

Do not accept just an external patch because of the possibility of multiple internal damages.

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Old 26-04-2015, 10:40   #4
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Re: Hole in yacht

Hi there Mitch,

I'm sorry about what happened to your boat. I think what has been said on this thread is heading you in the right direction. A proper surveryor with the proper equipment should be able to evaluate the crack. You cannot perform an adequate repair without a proper assessment. In the aviation industry the crack would be evaluated by a non destructive test (NDT) and once the extent of the damage is known then an engineer can create/formulate a repair for the damage.
There may be some delamination much further than the eye can see from the outside of the boat. So it's best not to take any chances.
Get yourself a good damage report and repair cost then submit it to the insurance company. If they don't want to repair tell them to pay up, the last thing you would like to have is a sinking ship 500 miles from nowhere.
One last word, when and if the boat gets repaired make sure you've researched the repairshop/man as much as your surveyor. There are alot of fly by nighters out there.

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Old 26-04-2015, 10:59   #5
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Re: Hole in yacht

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch1963 View Post
Hi my name is Mitch please can someone give me some advice! I have a dufour 1200 ct 45ft ketch. It was recently dropped on the road while being pulled out, it suffered a long split almost 1 metre long! I've been told it can be patched from the outside by the insurance accessor.? I think as to get to the repair from the inside is a very big job, as it is under the fuel tanks and batteries, can you tell me if this kind of repair is sufficient or not? As I don't want to cross an ocean if the patch will fall out or delaminate.:
Please can u help? Thankyou.
your assessor is having a larf .....at your expense!
this needs a full epoxy repair,ground out from inside and outside
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Old 26-04-2015, 11:01   #6
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Re: Hole in yacht

One other thing which may or may not be vaguely related. The seller of my 36 footer ended up with it after his own boat fell off the truckbed during transport. Because there was an issue of evaluating pre-falling off value of his old boat and to avoid prolonged litigation he agreed to take in my current boat as compensation. He was talked into it by the hauler who he thought was his buddy and a fellow ex-coastie. He was also convinced, based upon average selling prices of this model on YW and other sites that it's value was 1.2X of his dropped boat so he was reasonably happy. When a year or less later he had to sell it due to changed family cuircumstances he listed it for 1X to sell it quickly thinking he's at where he needs to be pricewise. Came to find out that this was not the market price and after more than a year of trying and several prices drops later he ended up bypassing the brokers and advertising it DIY at 1/2X the original asking price price when I came along and a week or two later after the latest price drop bought it for almost the last asking price (although I felt I still was overpaying a little I wanted to get on the water ASAP and to salvage my season rather than waiting for next May).

So if you're ever offered such an option think long and hard if it'll work in case you need to sell that replacement boat.
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Old 26-04-2015, 11:20   #7
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Re: Hole in yacht

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch1963 View Post
...It was recently dropped on the road while being pulled out, it suffered a long split almost 1 metre long!...
Get your own specialized surveyor. And then find someone qualified to do the job. Whoever dropped it will have to pay.
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Old 26-04-2015, 11:58   #8
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Re: Hole in yacht

G'day Mitch,

I don't know anything specific about the Dufour boat, but if it utilizes an internal grid that is glued to the hull with Plexus or similar adhesive (as many modern boats are), it is quite possible that some of the glue joints will have failed in the fall. These can be at some distance from the impact point and the obvious split, and will definitely weaken the whole structure. Do be sure that the evaluation done by a surveyor considers this aspect of the damage... it is very difficult to repair effectively and economically.

What a lousy thing to have happen... much sympathy from here.

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Old 26-04-2015, 12:13   #9
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Re: Hole in yacht

If the internal structural members were not compromised, a repair from the outside with epoxy should be fine. They have to cut back to good unfractured glass which could be a lot larger than just the area of the gash. The key is getting someone who will take the time to do the job right.

As others have said, get a competent surveyor, someone whose been in the business for awhile and has personal experience with fiberglass repair and structural systems. The damage may not be the end of your boat but if it is, you'll absolutely need a third party to back you up.
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Old 26-04-2015, 12:46   #10
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Re: Hole in yacht

As mentioned, get a good surveyor and a good damage report. Get a couple of repair quotes. Present all of this to their insurance carrier, as well as yours.

If they refuse to fix your boat properly, they are acting in "bad faith" - which will give you a big leg up in any legal action.

I don't know where you are, but if in the US, it may be a constructive total loss. A few years back the law was that damages that totaled 25% of the vessels value was a constructive total loss. You, as the owner, could declare this and the insurer would have to pay you your policy limits.

Depending, this may or may not be to your advantage, but it is an option.

About 2 years ago here in North Carolina we had friends have their boat suffer serious cosmetic damage (paint, toe rails, stanchions, spinnaker pole, deck fittings) and after about a week of the repairs starting and the costs accruing to that point, the insurer offered to settle as a constructive total loss, paid the policy limits, and let them buy the "salvage" for next to nothing. They were able to repair the boat and had money left over.

It's all a major pain, but you do have more options than insurance carriers will tell you.
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Old 26-04-2015, 12:55   #11
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Re: Hole in yacht

Dufour are still I business, so I would contact them and ask for their opinion as to what type of unsuspected damages to look for, and their opinion from emailed photos as to what my be required.

Meanwhile, if there are any repair shops in your area, fiberglass repair yards with indoor paint shops that can handle that big a job, ask THEM for a recommendation for a surveyor and estimate of what they would call "proper" repairs.

Repairing a large hull damage may require literally repainting that entire side of the hull, or the entire hull, if a shop can't quite match the color of a patch. And whatever has to be removed inside the hull to access the patch? Has to be removed, so it can be cleaned up and strengthened if need be. That hull flexed before it cracked, so it flexed inward and things may have been hit, and moved. And that kind of hit telegraphs all the way through the boat. Everything that was tabbed in place (bulkheads, cabinets) may have shifted. My friend had that problem after being t-boned. Just a "small" gash below the port rubrail, but the boat was totaled after the insurer found too many little things had moved.

It may be entirely and easily fixed, but don't rely on the other guy's insurer to be your friend and "do it right" without some pressure.
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Old 26-04-2015, 13:14   #12
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pirate Re: Hole in yacht

Having owned a Bene that was rammed resulting in a 14ft hull deck spilt..and a 4ft vertical split in the hull..
Go with Atolls advice..
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Old 27-04-2015, 06:23   #13
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Re: Hole in yacht

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Mitch.
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Old 27-04-2015, 07:01   #14
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Re: Hole in yacht

wow ... a 3+ feet long gash would mean a really hard hit.

That fiberglass has to flex a lot before it gets to the point where it splits
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Old 27-04-2015, 12:30   #15
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Re: Hole in yacht

I've done that job on a Catalina 30 with similar damage (fell off jacks during a storm.) The damage devalued the boat before repairs from about $20K to $6K. It was totaled by the insurance company for the original owner.

If the boat has otherwise nice gelcoat, there is disagreement about whether gelcoat should be applied over an epoxy repair, and it is difficult to get a perfect color match that will be longlasting. An epoxy repair and painting the entire side of the hull is easiest and most likely to be structurally sound. As Atoll stated, it must be attacked from both inside and out with proper beveling to get good bonding and it must be assured that the repair thickness is at least as thick as the original hull. There are lots of ways to screw this up and a good yard will charge a bazillion hours at $90 per hour.

Without an extensive inspection of the interior the extent of the damage will not be known and there is almost certainly interior damage. Further, even with an expert repair the value of the boat will be greatly depreciated for many years.

Insist on another estimate from a highly esteemed yard, it will probably be so high the boat will end up being totaled.
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