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Old 15-03-2019, 08:28   #1
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Help, stuck on deck!

I have a mast leak I'm trying to seal. It's the deck collar for the mast. Water was seeping under the collar on deck and getting down below.

The screws holding the collar to deck came out easily, and didn't look too bad (minor rust on one screw tip) but when I tried to gently pry the sucker off deck - no go. I'm afraid I might damage the deck if i pry harder.

Does anybody know how these suckers are usually attached? If PO 5200'd the collar to deck, what are my options?

In one photo you can see the white sealant/caulk/adhesive (unknown) that I removed by scraping as far under the collar/deck connection. It came out in strips, semi flexible. Definitely not sealing anything, and didn't appear to be firm enough to hold it in place.

Any ideas on options to remove and redbed? Hammer? Saw? Backhoe? Prayer?

Can I shove butyl tape deep into the crevice to seal it? Or is that just lipstick on the pig, as they say?

I was going to rebed with a truckload of butyl tape from compass marine, once I get it free. Any recommendations to the contrary are welcome!

-Gene
(PS I know the mast boot assembly looks rough, I was using everything I had to first make 100% sure the leak down below wasn't the boot, but was in fact between the collar and deck)
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Old 15-03-2019, 19:49   #2
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Re: Help, stuck on deck!

ArmySailor.

I'd lift the mast fractionally: maybe ľ inch then use a multi-function tool to remove the existing "sealant". Use the tool to thoroughly clean the deck and bottom the mast and the reseal with a quality sealant.

These multi-function tools are made by many tool-makers - Ryobi, Bosch, Ozito, Makita...... They come in corded as well as cordless. I use mine where there is just no acceptable alternative. Here is a video clip showing how they work

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Old 15-03-2019, 19:58   #3
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Help, stuck on deck!

I believe that there may be a thru bolt that goes through the mast and base plate that will have to be removed if your trying to pull the plate up.
If so, you will have to remove the boot, slide it up the mast and if there is a thru bolt, it will of course be obvious.

To remove 5200 from something glued down, Iíve had luck using fishing leader wire to cut the 5200, the fine solid wire, work it like a saw and pull it through.
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Old 16-03-2019, 01:41   #4
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Re: Help, stuck on deck!

A64pilot's right: that's how we've cut 5200, when it needed to be done.

Ann
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Old 16-03-2019, 03:08   #5
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Re: Help, stuck on deck!

Maybe you should look at this thread?
  • try some wd-40...works like a charm in cleaning 5200 right up...
  • A gel type Methylene Chloride stripper will soften it up. Becareful it will attack other paints and plastics.
  • Brad - find a website or an 800 number for 3M, I think they might make something specifically to remove 5200.
  • There is a relatively new product out there, think they call it AntiBond. Found some in West Marine. Spray it on let it sit for a bit, it softens up the 5200. Might take 2 times, depends on the thickness.
  • etc etc
https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating...ve-please.html
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Old 16-03-2019, 04:05   #6
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Re: Help, stuck on deck!

My questions would be all about the mast collar design, the installation and the condition of the deck core directly under the collar.

From your first picture there is only one drain hole apparent, which would hardly allow the water from a medium heavy shower to drain fast enough, meaning that the attachment holes and screws would be 'under water' for the duration. The water needs to drain away as fast as it collects; a drain hole under each slot would be more appropriate.

The collar looks well fastened now. If the seal between the deck and the lower surface of the collar is good, there may be no reason to remove it.

How well were the screws holding? What is the deck core? If balsa, you may have problems. If plastic foam (pvc, urethane) you may be ok.

As a test you could clean the holes well, dab some 5200 or similar sealant into them and see if the leak stops. If it turns out that the leak is only through the screw holes, you may be able to stop it without removing the collar.

If the core is balsa, it is likely that there is at least the first stages of rot where water has penetrated. This is bad but not the end of the world. Oftentimes the core can be 'routed out' from the upper or lower side with a small allen wrench or 'L' shaped piece of wire in a drill, and the pocket that is formed filled with thickened epoxy, then drilled for a new fastener (preferably a machine screw and nut), which is installed with a liberal application of the sealant of your choice.

If you have plastic core and no 'spongieness' is evident on the underside, vacuum out the holes as best you can and replace the screws with machine screws and nuts sealed with whatever you think's best.
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Old 16-03-2019, 04:21   #7
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Re: Help, stuck on deck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbunyard View Post
My questions would be all about the mast collar design, the installation and the condition of the deck core directly under the collar.

From your first picture there is only one drain hole apparent, which would hardly allow the water from a medium heavy shower to drain fast enough, meaning that the attachment holes and screws would be 'under water' for the duration. The water needs to drain away as fast as it collects; a drain hole under each slot would be more appropriate.

The collar looks well fastened now. If the seal between the deck and the lower surface of the collar is good, there may be no reason to remove it.

How well were the screws holding? What is the deck core? If balsa, you may have problems. If plastic foam (pvc, urethane) you may be ok.

As a test you could clean the holes well, dab some 5200 or similar sealant into them and see if the leak stops. If it turns out that the leak is only through the screw holes, you may be able to stop it without removing the collar.

If the core is balsa, it is likely that there is at least the first stages of rot where water has penetrated. This is bad but not the end of the world. Oftentimes the core can be 'routed out' from the upper or lower side with a small allen wrench or 'L' shaped piece of wire in a drill, and the pocket that is formed filled with thickened epoxy, then drilled for a new fastener (preferably a machine screw and nut), which is installed with a liberal application of the sealant of your choice.

If you have plastic core and no 'spongieness' is evident on the underside, vacuum out the holes as best you can and replace the screws with machine screws and nuts sealed with whatever you think's best.
Where in there did you attempt to answer her question on how to remove the base?
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Old 16-03-2019, 04:32   #8
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Re: Help, stuck on deck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmySailor View Post
I have a mast leak I'm trying to seal....
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbunyard View Post
...The collar looks well fastened now. If the seal between the deck and the lower surface of the collar is good, there may be no reason to remove it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empty Pockets View Post
Where in there did you attempt to answer her question on how to remove the base?
Comprehend much?

And by the way, how would you remove it?


Since from the first picture, the sealant appears to be silicone (which doesn't mean that that was what was used to install the collar), the first mode of attack would be to use a wide, dull wood chisel, bevel side down between the deck and the collar and some light taps to see if the collar pops free. Silicone has generally poor adhesive qualities and parts assembled with it can usually be disassembled with the proper application of appropriate small forces.

If 5200 has been used, he underlying condition of the structure is important to know before proceeding, because even well-found structures can be damaged or destroyed by the immense adhesive strength of polyurethane adhesives.

The other recommendations for removal are as good as I would give; there's no reason to repeat them.
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Old 16-03-2019, 07:58   #9
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Re: Help, stuck on deck!

Jimbunyard, no issues with the collar design, it drains well... Multiple drain holes and no indication of standing water. The screws were all clean and not corroded. No issues there. I can definitely see gaps between deck and the bottom of collar , that's where the leak is. Although they photos may lead you to believe it's well fastened, it's not. Hence the leak.

Definitely not going to test seal the screws with 5200. (I think butyl is much more suited for fasteners anyway).

Deck is balsa core, no indications if saturated core yet... And I eagerly want to address the leak to prevent that. The sealant isn't silicone... Is definitely white
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Old 16-03-2019, 07:59   #10
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Re: Help, stuck on deck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmySailor View Post
Jimbunyard, no issues with the collar design, it drains well... Multiple drain holes and no indication of standing water. The screws were all clean and not corroded. No issues there. I can definitely see gaps between deck and the bottom of collar , that's where the leak is. Although they photos may lead you to believe it's well fastened, it's not. Hence the leak.

Definitely not going to test seal the screws with 5200. (I think butyl is much more suited for fasteners anyway).

Deck is balsa core, no indications if saturated core yet... And I eagerly want to address the leak to prevent that. The sealant isn't silicone... Is definitely white
Oops got cut off.... I'll definitely try a soft wedge. And taps. Thank you!
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Old 16-03-2019, 08:09   #11
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Re: Help, stuck on deck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I believe that there may be a thru bolt that goes through the mast and base plate that will have to be removed if your trying to pull the plate up.
If so, you will have to remove the boot, slide it up the mast and if there is a thru bolt, it will of course be obvious.

To remove 5200 from something glued down, Iíve had luck using fishing leader wire to cut the 5200, the fine solid wire, work it like a saw and pull it through.
When I removed the boot to ensure the leak was between the collar and deck I didn't see a thru bolt... I'll recheck though. Thank you for this idea.
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Old 16-03-2019, 08:12   #12
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Re: Help, stuck on deck!

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Originally Posted by coopec43 View Post
ArmySailor.

I'd lift the mast fractionally: maybe ľ inch then use a multi-function tool to remove the existing "sealant". Use the tool to thoroughly clean the deck and bottom the mast and the reseal with a quality sealant.

These multi-function tools are made by many tool-makers - Ryobi, Bosch, Ozito, Makita...... They come in corded as well as cordless. I use mine where there is just no acceptable alternative. Here is a video clip showing how they work

I don't think I can lift the mast with my available resources. And besides the mast would just slide up without the collar I think. There are wooden wedges holding the mast center, underneath the boot material by the way.
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Old 16-03-2019, 09:13   #13
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Re: Help, stuck on deck!

Heat will soften 5200. But! you have to be very careful as too much heat can cause collateral damage. A composite deck might not like much heat so you would have to be very careful to heat the metal collar while keeping the heat away from the deck, possibly using a shield of some sort. Be careful and good luck.
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Old 16-03-2019, 09:54   #14
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Re: Help, stuck on deck!

Are your mast partners loose and/or removed? You could try wood shims. Hard wood works best like maple but cedar shims will also work OK or plastic wedges (some auto body supply stores have them) gently hammered into opposite sides of the mast collar/deck. Before you start getting aggressive you should support the deck from underneath with a temporary support like a 2X4 cut to length and shimmed to fit very snug. Using a vibrating cut off tool or piano wire/steel leader wire can be used to cut any existing sealant which may be a polysulfide. I've removed a lot of windshields and hatch glass without breaking any over the years with either/both vibrating saws and/or a steel wire. Think wire cheese cutter to visualize the steel wire trick.



Once you get the collar up consider drilling out the screw holes to 1/2" to 3/4" and filling with epoxy mixed with high strength filler. Drill only as far as the core goes. Let harden and then drill new holes for the screws using a proper taper wood screw bit. This will make sure that any water from the screw holes won't get into the core.
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Old 16-03-2019, 09:57   #15
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Re: Help, stuck on deck!

Assuming it's 5200... here is a good article on methods to remove it... what works and doesn't. However, if you end up using MKE... then good gloves, and ventilation. That stuff makes acetone look like mouthwash.

https://www.boatingmag.com/marine-so...-removing-5200
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