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Old 06-08-2009, 17:26   #1
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Help...Losing my Balls! - (Fredriksen Cars)

OK. Now I've got your attention....

I have the following Batt Cars installed on my main.

Frederiksen Ballslide System Segelmacherei Hansen & Ricken Ihr Segelmacher in NRW

And despite what that web site says, the balls do in fact drop out when the cars are dismounted!. About a dozen of the rotters are now languishing under the boat. (memo to self - never believe what you read on the internet)

I am trying to get my main off for the hurricane season and also for some maintenance.

So my questions are as follows:

1)..How on earth do I get these cars off without all the balls falling out?

2).. The sail is sewn onto every second slide with tape, so this means I will have cut it it off and re-sew it, if I leave the cars on the track - is this a better option?

2)..Or is it normal to extract the balls as each car gets pulled off the track, keep them in a jar and then later laboriously reinsert them one at a time as we put the cars back on the track.? Surely not!

I'll be grateful for any advice.

niels
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Old 06-08-2009, 17:32   #2
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small sections of identical track

cut up some matching track, and slide the cars directly from the mast track to the "temporary ball storage" tracks.

Use masking tape to keep the cars from sliding off the small tracks prematurely.
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Old 06-08-2009, 19:21   #3
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Bash: So, if I understand correctly, you suggest getting a number of 4 inch pieces of track to keep the balls in place. Sounds ok, but I'm concerned that with the folding and unfolding and handling of the sail and repair work that the tape or whatever I use will come unglued and balls will run every where.

I'll go see if I can scrounge some track with a similar section tomorrow.

Thanks.

niels
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Old 06-08-2009, 19:36   #4
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From the site

Quote:
Each Ballslide car runs on two sets of recirculating balls which will remain in the car even when you dismount it.
Are your balls deformed?

Can and has happened before, I think some systems used Delrin balls and an upgrade to Torlon was the go, at least thats what I did on my traveller car on the last boat
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Old 06-08-2009, 20:18   #5
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I will be watching this thread intently...I have that castrated feeling as well lately.

I would agree with the deformation of either the balls or the cars retainer lip..this should not be an issue to be contended with as designed..I would contact the manufacturer..how old are they?.............now you know what I mean ..don't give me 45 years old or any of that garbage..
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Old 06-08-2009, 21:02   #6
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Catmando: Mate, I've just had a feel and they seem pretty normal.

Seriously though, its a good suggestion, that the balls are worn out or deformed. Although, I'm not so sure deformation or wear is the issue as every ball falls out also there is lots of space for them to fall out. The boat is 4 years old and has had very little sailing, the main is still crisp and stiff. So wear and tear is probably unlikely. Nevertheless, I'll go buy some balls tomorrow and see if the new ones are bigger and remain in the car when demounted. Fingers crossed - thats the problem.

Stillraining: - Fredricksen no longer exists, so its auf wiedersen to to any warranty. - I had a feeling that Ronstan (?) had bought them.


I'm still convinced I've missed some vital point here - after all, who would design a wonder system which precludes a speedy and easy removal of the mainsail?
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Old 06-08-2009, 21:44   #7
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Did you happen to find any plastic bits aboard that are shaped like 6" pieces of track? These normally come with systems that loose their balls when you take their cars away.. huh? does that make sense still?

cheers,
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Old 06-08-2009, 21:57   #8
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yes, this is what you should look for

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Did you happen to find any plastic bits aboard that are shaped like 6" pieces of track? These normally come with systems that loose their balls when you take their cars away.. huh? does that make sense still?
my plastic "bits" are blue. these are meant to store cars on systems that are net designed to retain the bearings.
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Old 06-08-2009, 22:06   #9
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Quote:
Did you happen to find any plastic bits aboard that are shaped like 6" pieces of track? These normally come with systems that loose their balls when you take their cars away.. huh? does that make sense still?

cheers,
Nick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
my plastic "bits" are blue. these are meant to store cars on systems that are net designed to retain the bearings.

OK well then...I learn something every day.

I have considered cars for my boat as my wife/kids can't hoist the main by herself/themselves..I will make sure if I do I will by cars that retain there balls....bad design in my opinion..but thats all it is.

Carry on
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Old 06-08-2009, 22:45   #10
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JEDI : Sadly no such pieces to be found. I'm the second owner thus I don't know exactly what came with the boat originally. I'm sure you're right - its a logical solution.

Thanks
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Old 06-08-2009, 23:20   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillraining View Post
OK well then...I learn something every day.

I have considered cars for my boat as my wife/kids can't hoist the main by herself/themselves..I will make sure if I do I will by cars that retain there balls....bad design in my opinion..but thats all it is.

Carry on
Look for tracks + cars that have no balls, like Antal tracks. We just put these on the mizzen and they reduce friction to almost zero. Now doing the main... See Antal Marine Equipment or, specifically: Antal Marine Equipment

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 06-08-2009, 23:37   #12
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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Look for tracks + cars that have no balls, like Antal tracks. We just put these on the mizzen and they reduce friction to almost zero. Now doing the main... See Antal Marine Equipment or, specifically: Antal Marine Equipment

cheers,
Nick.
Sounds like a good system...but for the life of me I dont understand why this technology isint adaptable to insert into the origional luff track on existing masts reducing both weight and installation hassle and ascetics as well...Probably another of my million dollor ideas that I never capitalize on for lack of R & D capital.
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Old 06-08-2009, 23:39   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neelie View Post
Catmando: Mate, I've just had a feel and they seem pretty normal.
Too much information


Quote:
Stillraining: - Fredricksen no longer exists, so its auf wiedersen to to any warranty. - I had a feeling that Ronstan (?) had bought them.
Pretty sure thats right

Ronstan Sailboat Hardware AUS
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Old 06-08-2009, 23:41   #14
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Sounds like a good system...but for the life of me I dont understand why this technology isint adaptable to insert into the origional luff track on existing masts reducing both weight and installation hassle and ascetics as well...Probably another of my million dollor ideas that I never capitalize on for lack of R & D capital.
I have seen torlon (and other high tech self lubricating plastics) rods inserted aftermarket. Rods where spun up by a machine shop.
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Old 07-08-2009, 14:39   #15
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The solution has been found.

First off, as the Australians would say, clearly I am a dickhead.

There was never any need to remove the cars to get the sail off. I went to the New JSI shop in St Petersburg to buy some track and a bunch of balls. There, the Ronstan expert explained there was never any need to remove the Batt cars, and showed me how.

So back to the boat, the mainsail was off in 30 minutes. Too easy.

(If anyone has Frediriksen Batt Cars, they are identical to Ronstan, it seems Ronstan bought them out).

Nevertheless, in the trial and (mainly) error process of losing a squillion balls, I have become an expert on Frediricken Batt Carr assembly, so thats a good thing.

Thank you everyone for all the helpful advice - I learnt a lot.

niels
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