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Old 16-07-2013, 21:17   #16
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Re: Headliner insulation to keep heat OUT (hot climates)

One time when SCUBA diving off of Cozumel (in the Carribean), my dive computer registered 80F at 80Ft! I don't think that would help too much cooling a boat...
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Old 16-07-2013, 23:09   #17
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Re: Headliner insulation to keep heat OUT (hot climates)

Some places the top layers of the ocean are well mixed, other places they aren't. I don't know what the typical lapse rate is for ocean water temps, there may not be a 'typical'. For air it is pretty well documented.
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Old 16-07-2013, 23:34   #18
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Re: Headliner insulation to keep heat OUT (hot climates)

Sorry but the boat was in Alaska. And I do have some pics somewhere! but no way can I figure out how to post them on here, and I believe they are old photo prints ! (im not to much for this new dig stuff LOL) The jute ya can get at most any material store or even a apolstery shop in just about any color ya wish ! It's cheap and easy to work with ! And has a nice warm look to it.
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Old 17-07-2013, 06:09   #19
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I would think jute would mold rapidly in the tropical humid climate.
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Old 17-07-2013, 09:44   #20
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Re: Headliner insulation to keep heat OUT (hot climates)

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So sorry that would be getting something for nothing, doesn't happen in physics (Except at the the quantum Level).
LOL, yeah it's been a while since I tool physics. I was thinking like if you had the exit hose longer than the entry hose and you got it started at first that there might be enough suction created to continue the loop of bringing water from the ocean up and then back down again.
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Old 17-07-2013, 10:40   #21
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Re: Headliner insulation to keep heat OUT (hot climates)

But when the exit hose is lower than the inlet hose the outlet pressure is higher. It doesn't back siphon because the extra weight of water in the outlet hose almost matches the difference in pressure.

The almost part is because the waters in the inlet and outlet hoses are different temps which means they are at slightly different densities. Once you stop pumping the system will oscillate very slowly until the two sides are in balance (Say a couple minutes) then there will be a continued net change in one direction as the temps on both sides equalize and the system balances that (Say an hour).

I am being pedantic, I will stop now.

I talked to a friend that occasionally dives in Hawai'i. He indicated in HA there isn't much temp difference between surface and 30' and 100' down. I thought there would be more, apparently you need to go down 500' to start seeing a significant temp drop, so this idea doesn't have much use, except in places where the water is pretty cold to begin with compared to the air temps: ie. west coast US and other locations with currents flowing from pole toward equator.
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Old 17-07-2013, 13:41   #22
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Try keeping direct sunlight of the cabin roof by placing a cushion on the.coach roof. A cheaper alternative would be to lay a duvet and cover on the cabin roof. It will double as insulation and somewhere to sun bathe. As an experiment check out the temp difference with just a duvet lying on the coach roof top. Cushions are supplied as standard on some boats I've seen in the Med. an example would be Amels.
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Old 17-07-2013, 14:08   #23
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Re: Headliner insulation to keep heat OUT (hot climates)

Danibug,

If you haven't already done it, you can make a Breezeway or Sunbrella cover for the hatch lid. If you close off that *sun entry-way*, it will stay cooler in the v-berth.

Also, there are various designs of hatch dodgers and wind scoops that will allow airflow and keep out rain. Mine works on a "dorade" principle, and I made it from Stamoid, although the next one'll probably be "Weathermax". If this is the kind of thing you might be interested in, please PM me, I'm happy to answer specific questions.

It sounds like you're on your way insulation-wise. I'd say that you're well acclimatized to heat and humidity, and yet, you may find hotter, more humid places closer to the equator, more hot and more humid. Even the Solomon Is. come to mind in that respect.


Have fun with your project.

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Old 17-07-2013, 14:30   #24
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Re: Headliner insulation to keep heat OUT (hot climates)

We spent a summer in French Polynesia and 9 years in Hawaii on our W32. An awning from the mast to the boom crutch kept the main cabin comfortable even without cabin fans. Only really uncomcortable time below was in the evening when the shift between sea and land breeze produced a flat calm. We just hung out in the cockpit for that hour or so.

Big help was a pup tent like canvas for the fore deck that acted as shade and WINDSCOOP. It was a rectangular piece of sunbrella that tied at the center to the staysail stay and the corners down to the life lines on each side. Aft, it just lay on the cabin top behind the fore hatch. Kept the sun off the foredeck but, more importantly, insured a nice breeze through the cabin.

Stowage of the canvas was not a problem. We just kept it in a sail bag lashed to the handrails when not in use. Used Bamboo we picked up along the way to spread the main cabin awning. The PVC pipe we originally had proved inadequate when the wind got up. We lashed the bamboo to the overhead beams down below where they acted as a much used hand hold under sail.

The big issue about not having an awining is the deck will heat up, no matter how much insulation you have. When it cools off in the afternoon/evening you've got that great big heat sink overhead that will radiate back into the boat. Will keep the below decks too warm long after the external temps have dropped to the comfortable range.

Doubt your deck is much more than an inch thick other than around the mast. IIRC correctly, the deck is cored with 1/2" plywood with a few laminates of glass on top and bottom. We'd planned on some coldweather cruising so added 1/2 inch styrofoam with glued plywood battens to nail the 3/8" T&G mahogany ceiling matierial that we had custom milled. Did the overhead and cabin sides that way. Can't say that it added all that much insulation. Especially since we got way laid in Hawaii and never got north.
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Old 18-07-2013, 07:59   #25
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Re: Headliner insulation to keep heat OUT (hot climates)

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I am being pedantic, I will stop now.
LOL, that's ok. That's for the details
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Old 18-07-2013, 08:06   #26
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Re: Headliner insulation to keep heat OUT (hot climates)

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We spent a summer in French Polynesia and 9 years in Hawaii on our W32. An awning from the mast to the boom crutch kept the main cabin comfortable even without cabin fans. Only really uncomcortable time below was in the evening when the shift between sea and land breeze produced a flat calm. We just hung out in the cockpit for that hour or so.

Big help was a pup tent like canvas for the fore deck that acted as shade and WINDSCOOP. It was a rectangular piece of sunbrella that tied at the center to the staysail stay and the corners down to the life lines on each side. Aft, it just lay on the cabin top behind the fore hatch. Kept the sun off the foredeck but, more importantly, insured a nice breeze through the cabin.

Stowage of the canvas was not a problem. We just kept it in a sail bag lashed to the handrails when not in use. Used Bamboo we picked up along the way to spread the main cabin awning. The PVC pipe we originally had proved inadequate when the wind got up. We lashed the bamboo to the overhead beams down below where they acted as a much used hand hold under sail.

The big issue about not having an awining is the deck will heat up, no matter how much insulation you have. When it cools off in the afternoon/evening you've got that great big heat sink overhead that will radiate back into the boat. Will keep the below decks too warm long after the external temps have dropped to the comfortable range.

Doubt your deck is much more than an inch thick other than around the mast. IIRC correctly, the deck is cored with 1/2" plywood with a few laminates of glass on top and bottom. We'd planned on some coldweather cruising so added 1/2 inch styrofoam with glued plywood battens to nail the 3/8" T&G mahogany ceiling matierial that we had custom milled. Did the overhead and cabin sides that way. Can't say that it added all that much insulation. Especially since we got way laid in Hawaii and never got north.
WOW, thanks so much for this! I love the fore deck retangular you refer and will probably make something like that. I read something about the W32's being cored with two 1/2" plywood sheets, so that's about an inch plus fiberglass. I want to say the plywood sheets are separated by fiberglass but I can't remember.

Great idea about the bamboo too. Really valuable info coming from someone who actually has used our model boat. I see you have a different boat now...What happened to the Westy?
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Old 18-07-2013, 08:06   #27
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Re: Headliner insulation to keep heat OUT (hot climates)

Hi Dani, I am planning on using the two-layer reflectix approach on Windsong. My plan right now is to affix the reflectix to the headliner panels instead of the hull itself. I was worried about taping or gluing the insulation to the cabin top because of mold and if I ever wanted to remove it. I figure you would need nearly 100% of the surface glued down to avoid moisture from gathering between the insulation and the cabin top.

My guess is that if I affix the insulation to the headliner panels I would avoid those problems, as well as give the gap between the reflectix and cabin top that people say is needed for it to really work.

watching this thread for more ideas though
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Old 18-07-2013, 08:07   #28
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Re: Headliner insulation to keep heat OUT (hot climates)

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Originally Posted by joemac4sail View Post
Try keeping direct sunlight of the cabin roof by placing a cushion on the.coach roof. A cheaper alternative would be to lay a duvet and cover on the cabin roof. It will double as insulation and somewhere to sun bathe. As an experiment check out the temp difference with just a duvet lying on the coach roof top. Cushions are supplied as standard on some boats I've seen in the Med. an example would be Amels.
Regards Joe

What a neat idea. It hadn't occured to me. Thanks.
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Old 18-07-2013, 09:12   #29
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Re: Headliner insulation to keep heat OUT (hot climates)

Danibug.
Just so happens, the Cat that I replaced the headliner in 13 years ago is in my marina. He runs charters. I emailed him to see how well the job stood up. Here is a picture from his website.




After pulling out the carpet, i used a wire brush a vacum to get the bulk of the dry glue. i always used respirator, if you can get the full maks type is best cause the powder just rains down and gets in your eyes thru the vents on goggles. i then tried 3M adhesive remover to remove the rest of the debris with a putty knife. but really that seemed a lost cause. I then, i f remember correctly, painted the fbg with a petit paint Dura white which has an anti fungal in it. i waited one week with dehumidifier to make sure paint was good and cured. This also gave me the chance to clean all the old glue from the surfaces I didn't protect, which was a lot . I'm skipping the adding strakes part cause I assume you have them already.
I used 3M adhesive to affix the refextex straight to the fiberglass. The glue is like contact cement, spray lite layer on each surface that will be affixed.


One thing about making a space between the fiberglass and reflectex is that it could make a hot pocket space where the heat bounces back and forth in that space. I could be way way off on this but it might be worth a call to 3M.that is, if you use reflectex.

Sorry if this was TMI
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Old 18-07-2013, 13:12   #30
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Re: Headliner insulation to keep heat OUT (hot climates)

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Danibug.
Just so happens, the Cat that I replaced the headliner in 13 years ago is in my marina. He runs charters. I emailed him to see how well the job stood up. Here is a picture from his website.





I used 3M adhesive to affix the refextex straight to the fiberglass. The glue is like contact cement, spray lite layer on each surface that will be affixed.


One thing about making a space between the fiberglass and reflectex is that it could make a hot pocket space where the heat bounces back and forth in that space. I could be way way off on this but it might be worth a call to 3M.that is, if you use reflectex.

Sorry if this was TMI
Erika
NO this is great Thanks you so much for the photos! When you put the reflectix up is one side white? Is that the white in the picture or is that formica or something else?
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