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Old 22-03-2011, 05:59   #31
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Re: Has Anyone Used Copper Coat Antifouling

Ed, if the Coppercoat doesn't work what is required to go back to tradiation bottom paint?
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Old 22-03-2011, 07:19   #32
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Re: Has Anyone Used Copper Coat Antifouling

Hey Edboat, are you dodging my question back in post #13 re the addition of thinners?
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Old 23-03-2011, 04:09   #33
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Re: Has Anyone Used Copper Coat Antifouling

I missed the question on thinners, the thinner we use is Isoproply alcohol. Simple to get anywhere and not expensive. We usually recommend thinning when trying to get a smooth race bottom and by thinning you are not getting the correct milage.

To apply another anti-fouling over Coppercoat requires sanding the Coppercoat well prior to the application. We have a number of customers who are trying to maintain a color scheme on their boats and will paint from the boot stripe to the real waterline with a colored anti-fouling for appearance purposes.
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Old 23-03-2011, 04:41   #34
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Re: Has Anyone Used Copper Coat Antifouling

Thanks Edboat.
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Old 23-03-2011, 04:50   #35
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Re: Has Anyone Used Copper Coat Antifouling

To answer the original question, I used CopperCoat on my last antifouling last year in February. I hauled out again in Feb this year and can report some findings.

On the hull there had grown a layer of muck that looked like dead skin after too much sun, or a snake shedding it if you prefer. It seemed to me that very small life forms tried to attach themselves but died and form this thing. It came off with the lightest of touches of the bare hand. In some places there were a few barnacles, near the waterline and also to the bottom of the keel. They seemed to be attached to the 'skin' and some came of with it falling. The pressure wash was very light as I didn't want to risk damaging the coat and after it there was nothing left at all.

Except, that is, the through hulls.

For some reason, the metal parts of the boat, which had been covered with epoxy resin like all the rest of the hull (barrier) just before applying the CopperCoat, were covered in barnacles and all kinds of life forms from this and other planets.

Intrestingly, I had followed the instructions of the people in England that produce the stuff scrupulously, and had rubbed the hull with a green scotchbrite pad lightly, but I think I did not do the through hulls at the time. This I simply can't remember. A few days after launching last year I noticed that most of the hull had gone green with copper oxide, but there were a few places where it had not. I tried to do the same activation but it seems to me that in these places it was where the growth happend.

I have now re-launched and will report when I have more data. The manufacturers claim a 10 year life. I have only had it for one year and I am satisfied with the result, so far.

Cheers!
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Old 23-03-2011, 05:59   #36
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Re: Has Anyone Used Copper Coat Antifouling

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Originally Posted by Greggegner View Post
I used Copper epoxy and it worked ok in fresh water. Once I moved the boat to Charleston SC I put bottom paint over it due to the heavy growth. Basically I think the copper bottom acted like a barrier coat. I would not use it again.

Ed

What's your thoughts on the above?

I find this interesting and note most negative posts on the thread are a single "similar" product failure experience. Overall it seems with all the CF members who may have read the thread that there is very little experience pro or con for the whole thing.

I probably need to strip my bottom of old paint in the next year or so; so I'm keeping an open mind (after all I decided to get a dangerous Hunter boat).

I notice that on your site there isn't really much comparison testing info. Are there third party long term testing comparisons that you can provide links to?
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Old 23-03-2011, 09:13   #37
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Re: Has Anyone Used Copper Coat Antifouling

Don,

The boats they pull out here are all Copper Coat so I don't know how it fares in comparison to similar product.

What is obvious in our club, is that if some effort is put into regular maintenance it appears to work well. I've seen about 20 CC boats on the hard over the past year and results are positive enough that I'm seriously considering using it on our boat.

The only problems I've observed seem to be either poor application or boats where the owners literally do zero maintenance. The key seems to be having a diver lightly wipe it with a Scotchbright pad to "activate" the copper periodically.

That being said, what works in tropical waters may be different than what works in your more temperate waters. Talk to a few of the yards and see what their experiences have been
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Old 23-03-2011, 10:12   #38
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Re: Has Anyone Used Copper Coat Antifouling

To all considering Copper Coat- bear in mind that region of use is a determining factor in anti fouling performance. Someone using this product in England may have a vastly different experience with it than someone using it in the Carribean. It is never one-size-fits-all with anti fouling coatings. FYI.
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Old 23-03-2011, 11:30   #39
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Re: Has Anyone Used Copper Coat Antifouling

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Originally Posted by muskoka View Post
. The key seems to be having a diver lightly wipe it with a Scotchbright pad to "activate" the copper periodically.
If I have to have a diver on regular basis I'm not interested. I don't need this now with standard paint.
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Old 23-03-2011, 12:36   #40
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Re: Has Anyone Used Copper Coat Antifouling

[QUOTE=muskoka;647696]It's an epoxy product which should only be applied over another epoxy or an epoxy primer like Interprotect. Like everything it's only as good as the surface preparation and the primer it can ashore to.

They use Coppercoat here in Hong Kong and it seems to work quite well. But you still need to wipe down the bottom periodically.[/QUOTE]

In 2009 the bottom of my boat was treated with the product from AMC. through Coppercoat Hellas in Greece.

I had to use 5 tins for the size of my boat and the cost of the 5 tins was about 200.00 more than in UK. It was much more expensive here in greece, but then in Greece everything is expensive and they blame everybody else.

The video is excellent for the application and the times given are about correct It does state in their info that it can be applied to Epoxy or GRP. So barrier coat if you want

The original West product had started to peel in strips (Incorrectly applied I think)
In 2010 May/Jume after the boat had been in the water all winter in a muddy bay in Lefkada we were

So after a haul out at 300.00 and a pressure wash and rubdown at 60.00 (Total of 360.00) she was returned to the sea and sailed from the Ionian to the Southern Agean where she has been in a harbour with a rock sand and mud bottom/ nothing growing and seawater that in the calm you can see the bottom 5 metres dow.

Only to find that now we have the same problem once again. Not Slime but weed and Worm. So its another liftout etc. so will be 3 lift outs in 3 years the only saving would appear to be on the cost of sanding the bottom and the cost of antifoul.

Prior the first lift out and clean when we knew of the circumstances I had contacted AMC by email and had received their reply.

AMC Office <info@coppercoat.com>
...
View Contact
Tim Fairhead

RE: 02 June 2010 Antifoul Copper coat Failure Greece [Scanned]
...


From:AMC Office <info@coppercoat.com>
...
View ContactTo:Michael Macloughlin <mikedatabak@yahoo.co.uk>


Dear Michael,

Thank you for your e-mail regarding the Coppercoat on your boat in Lefkas.

It is difficult for me to be too specific with my advice concerning the Coppercoat on your particular boat as I have not inspected it and am not fully familiar with this particular application. However, I trust that the comments below will be of some use.

It would be standard practice (and advisable) to clean a Coppercoat treated boat once a season, but as you might expect, some people clean their boats more regularly than this while others do it less frequently. It is down to local need and personal preference. Consequently if there is some slime or barnacle growth on your hull I recommend that it be cleaned by pressure-washing or scrubbing.

Clearly the performance of any anti-foul will vary from location to location and from season to season, and indeed from boat to boat depending on usage. So, while a treatment of anti-foul may keep one boat in one location completely clean for one particular season, a treatment of the same anti-foul on a different boat in a different location with different usage will perform differently. Having supplied Coppercoat to dozens of boats in the Lefkas/Preveza area over recent years we know from good experience just how effective it is in that particular location. Indeed, only yesterday we dispatched another batch to our regular Coppercoat applicator there. Of course, it is impossible for any paint company to predict the use and location of every boat, but we can give guidelines as to the expected performance of our products.

Commenting on the performance of Coppercoat in general, we know of owners who rarely need to clean their hulls - and I heard from one owner who did not touch the bottom of his boat for five years! However, at the other end of the scale I know of a client in the Caribbean that dives under his boat and cleans the hull approximately three times a year. There can be no set rules as to how often a hull will need cleaning - but it is sensible to clean the boat as and when necessary to minimize any build up. As I say, for the vast majority of Coppercoat users, a lift and pressure-wash once a season is sufficient to keep the hull clean.

Interestingly some personal friends of mine used Coppercoat on their Gulfstar 36 back in 1995. They kept this boat in the lagoon at Simpsons Bay in St Maarten for three years before sailing widely around the Caribbean and down to South America. They found that they needed to clean the boat approximately every four to six months when moored in the lagoon, but far less frequently when they continued on their trip.

While Coppercoat offers a strong degree of protection against most fouling in most locations for many years - it is not a "maintenance-free" product and periodic cleaning of the hull should be expected. Of course, the benefit is that unlike with conventional anti-foul, once the hull has been cleaned you can simply re-launch and do not need to go through the expense and rigmarole of having to apply yet another coat of anti-foul. There is also the environmental benefit of not washing and scraping off old anti-foul paint every season - as is commonly required.

Please remember that unlike conventional anti-foul (that starts off at full strength and becomes weaker by the day), Coppercoat is actually quite a mild anti-foul when new. Coppercoat increases in potency as the months and years pass. This is because it takes some time for the epoxy to begin to break down and allow the formation and release of its powerful anti-fouling agent cuprous oxide. Consequently it is usual for Coppercoat to perform better in its second year and beyond, than it does in its first year. I predict that you will see a further improvement in the performance of the coating in the coming years.

If/when the boat is out of the water you may benefit from lightly but thoroughly burnishing the surface of the Coppercoat, using a fine grade of wet-and-dry paper or a finishing sanding pad. This will expose fresh copper and increase the rate at which the copper oxidizes and becomes more active (in an anti-fouling sense). Do not use anything coarse, as the idea is to burnish/polish the surface, not abrade it to give a good key for marine life to cling too!!! This process is mentioned in the application instructions but I have to admit that most our clients do not bother. In most locations this burnishing (best completed either before or immediately after the first season afloat) is unnecessary, but is a process that you may be beneficial to your particular boat in your particular location.

I hope that this proves useful and please feel free to contact me again should your require further advice.

With best regards,

Tim.


Aquarius Marine Coatings Ltd.
www.coppercoat.com
info@coppercoat.com
Tel: +44 (0) 1258 861059
Fax: +44 (0) 1258 861220

So you don't save much if at all. In 3 years it will have cost me 1500.00
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Old 24-03-2011, 06:20   #41
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Re: Has Anyone Used Copper Coat Antifouling

Greggegner used a copper/epoxy product not Coppercoat. I don't know what the maintenance program was with that coating so I can't comment on why he topcoated with another anti-fouling paint.

As has been pointed out that the water temp makes a difference in the maintenance required. Our customers in New England that use their boats on a somewhat regular basis do not need to clean their bottoms during the summer sailing season. If the boat sets in its slip all summer long you might need to clean it once.

I just got a picture of a Farr 50 that the owner sent from the BVI that had been there for a year and the bottom was excellent. The owner said to tell people "it works down here as well". The more you sail or power your boat the less you will need to maintain the bottom.

As Fast Bottoms will confirm most people have the bottoms of their boats cleaned from time to time it reduced drag and increases performance and requires less fuel to move your boat.
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Old 24-03-2011, 14:44   #42
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Re: Has Anyone Used Copper Coat Antifouling

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Originally Posted by PAR View Post
Just curious, but since your product doesn't conduct electricity, I'll assume this is because of individual copper particulate encapsulation, at the very least, between the adjoining particulates a plastic membrane, breaking the bond carry. So, how does copper get exposed to the beasties that would like to live on the surface, if there is sufficient plastic coating to prevent continuity among the particulates?
That's where the scotchbrite and burnishing come in
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Old 24-03-2011, 19:14   #43
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Re: Has Anyone Used Copper Coat Antifouling

We have divers do our boat even with regular anti foul to remove slime and growth which happens between haul outs. It makes the boat faster and probably means we can haul out every 12 months instead of 9 months.

Regardless of what you use you need to clean the hull. And you still need to haul out to replace the anodes, service through hulls, etc.
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Old 24-03-2011, 20:42   #44
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Re: Has Anyone Used Copper Coat Antifouling

edboat: i'm not sure what the original owner of my boat used as anti-fouling tho when she was still at bennett's boatyard in n.c. i remember them saying they had given her a rub with scotchbrite after she had been out of the water some time. i've had the boat in n.c. and now the uk for 4 years and when we water blasted her last summer there was minimal growth - mainly heavy slime (after 2 years in water).

is there any easy way to tell if the coating is coppercoat - or at least expoxy based - rather than a paint type anti-fouling?
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Old 24-03-2011, 21:01   #45
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Re: Has Anyone Used Copper Coat Antifouling

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edboat: i'm not sure what the original owner of my boat used as anti-fouling tho when she was still at bennett's boatyard in n.c. i remember them saying they had given her a rub with scotchbrite after she had been out of the water some time. i've had the boat in n.c. and now the uk for 4 years and when we water blasted her last summer there was minimal growth - mainly heavy slime (after 2 years in water).

is there any easy way to tell if the coating is coppercoat - or at least expoxy based - rather than a paint type anti-fouling?

Seems to me it should be copper colored.
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