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Old 03-01-2012, 20:20   #46
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Re: Hard Freeze Warning in Florida Areas what are you doing?

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Originally Posted by Steve W View Post
A few years ago, we had a hard freeze with a low of 22 degrees, which matched the car thermometer when I arrived at the marina at 6am. Bulkhead mounted boat thermometer showed 42 degrees (with no heat on) at 6am. Haven't worried about it since.
We had a three-day ice storm in Jacksonville when I was in high school. My dad worked for a tugboat company. He was worried about getting over the metal-grid bridge, but not the boats.
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Old 03-01-2012, 20:22   #47
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Re: Hard Freeze Warning in Florida Areas what are you doing?

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Originally Posted by Alaska JD View Post
Someone is going to have to explaine the physics of this to me. A busted waterline IN the boat is simply allowing water from the water storage tank or water heater to "relocate" in the boat. nothing is being added and the waterline on the boat won't change. If the burst pipe starts another chain of events that allows water from outside the boat to come - well that's a different story

But some of us don't want water to leak into our boats.
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Old 03-01-2012, 20:23   #48
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Re: Hard Freeze Warning in Florida Areas what are you doing?

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Wind is only a small part of the equation and irrelevant if the temps aren't below freezing.

Someone asked how windy it was last night, that's all.
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Old 03-01-2012, 20:31   #49
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Re: Hard Freeze Warning in Florida Areas what are you doing?

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Originally Posted by Therapy View Post

It's not even that uncommon here. My boat lies to the south of its dock, and I have a "dock vang" made much like a boom vang, 5:1 ratio, to pull the boat over to the dock in the high north winds we get here periodically. People all all over the area found their boats aground at their dockage today because the water was basically blown to Cuba. I keep my boat lines loose except during a bad storm so the boat can swing around and the keel can scrub the bottom out -- slips tend to be shallow here -- so I can actually pull the boat over to the dock when this happens.

Last year a front like this came through in February. I was out on Tuesday night as I always am and got back around 10PM. There was my boat, perfectly centered in the slip. I had just bought this boat three months previously, and I was patting myself on the back -- 'Dang I'm getting good at tying this boat up!"

Then I pulled on the vang and the boat wouldn't budge. She was solidly aground, in ... mud.

I ended up spending the night in a motel.


And what we just had (it's still now) was just a strong front. Last April we had a spring storm with gusts up to 80 mph. We had boats blown aground all over the place.
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Old 03-01-2012, 20:37   #50
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Re: Hard Freeze Warning in Florida Areas what are you doing?

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Originally Posted by hummingway View Post
I spent 10 years in Edmonton. The only thing I liked about Edmonton weather wa that it wasn't Winnipeg! I could almost always count on it being worse there!
Yeah, we have it really tough in Edmonton this year; almost as warm as Tampa today!

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Old 03-01-2012, 20:40   #51
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Re: Hard Freeze Warning in Florida Areas what are you doing?

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Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
Yeah, we have it really tough in Edmonton this year; almost as warm as Tampa today!

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Funny! I think you'll be in that range more than we will, and it's hard to complain because this has been a spectacular winter for the most part.
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Old 03-01-2012, 20:55   #52
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Re: Hard Freeze Warning in Florida Areas what are you doing?

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Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
Yeah, we have it really tough in Edmonton this year; almost as warm as Tampa today!

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That's pretty nice. I think it was three years ago in December I was set to drive back back here from Edmonton. I got up in the morning to discover it was -50 and a snowstorm was raging. I got to Kamloops with the truck making a weird noise so I pulled into a garage and asked the guy to check out the front wheel. It was so cold leaving Edmonton a lug had snapped off. Oh man, I don't miss that.

I do however miss the warm kiss of the Mexican sun when January and February settles her grey wet shroud around the islands and the pressure drops until you feel the full weight of a coastal winter on your shoulders.

Sigh. What were we talking about?
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Old 04-01-2012, 05:16   #53
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Re: Hard Freeze Warning in Florida Areas what are you doing?

A “Hard Frost” (radiational freeze or frost) is usually defined as temperature drop to below 28 degrees, for a few hours or more.
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Old 04-01-2012, 07:17   #54
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Re: Hard Freeze Warning in Florida Areas what are you doing?

Gonna cut slits in my socks so I can wear them under my flip-flops. Or do you guys think that would look tacky?
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Old 04-01-2012, 07:30   #55
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Re: Hard Freeze Warning in Florida Areas what are you doing?

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Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos View Post
The concern is mainly for the water lines. If ones boat is not plugged into shore power and you have multiple pressure water lines that have water in them they could freeze. If I were plugged into shore power or on board it would be no big deal. Wehave had camper lines freeze and burst and become a pain in the arse to repair and clean up. These lines in our boat are the same grey semi flexible water lines as were in our camper. Are you saying it is not an issue for boats??
If your camper sat partially submerged in the water it would not have frozen! Yes it is a non-issue for a boat in the water in Florida... now if you are on the hard it perhaps might be... especially if you are inland like Indiantown Marina.
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Old 04-01-2012, 07:59   #56
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Re: Hard Freeze Warning in Florida Areas what are you doing?

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If your camper sat partially submerged in the water it would not have frozen! Yes it is a non-issue for a boat in the water in Florida... now if you are on the hard it perhaps might be... especially if you are inland like Indiantown Marina.
No doubt, lol, Thanks,
Raku you are right this has been an awesome winter so far,
Seaduction... socks and flipflops match especially if you are wearing shorts and the socks are kneehighs.
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Old 04-01-2012, 08:14   #57
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Re: Hard Freeze Warning in Florida Areas what are you doing?

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A “Hard Frost” (radiational freeze or frost) is usually defined as temperature drop to below 28 degrees, for a few hours or more.

Not here, Gord, and not when I lived in Missouri. For instance, it was a given in Missouri that the temp would go below freezing -- and stay there. There was no warning for that. It was called "winter" and very predictable.

However, when it first started to get cooler, gardeners needed to know when to protect their annuals from frost. So we would have "frost" and "freeze" warnings.

Here such warnings are even more important because of the citrus groves. Farmers need to know when to protect their plants. Sometimes if it's going to be cold enough they spray the trees with water so they have an ice shield. Frost is much more damaging than the ice is. Sometimes they put heaters in the groves, or fans to keep the air moving to prevent frost from forming. More informal gardeners know to protect their tender plants, as I just did last night.

I lived in the midwest for over 30 years an that's how it was. Every year the news media would have an article before SEVERE cold waves, which had no formal label except "Brrr it's gonna be COLD, folks!" about insulating pipes and such.

It may be different in Canada, I don't know, but here "hard freeze" is an agricultural warning.
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:36   #58
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Re: Hard Freeze Warning in Florida Areas what are you doing?

Go sailing. Moving water won't freeze.

I've sailed in blizzards out on Lake Ontario, and crashed the PCYC New Years party by sailing up to the dock in -15C weather.

Being a liveaboard, the through hull for the sink never froze, warm water being brought up from the bottom and the water tank compartment had a grill in the side of it so warm air would get in there. As for a quick drop in temp that only lasts a few hours or a day, I wouldn't worry too much. I've left bottles of water sitting on the counter as I work, left them over night on a cold boat on the hard and they never froze. It takes a fair bit of time for the interior temp to drop below freezing.
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Old 04-01-2012, 10:02   #59
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Re: Hard Freeze Warning in Florida Areas what are you doing?

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It is even forecast to go above freezing here in Winterpeg today...I hope you guys in Toronto enjoy the cold, we have kept it to ourselves for to many years.
You're very kind to have done so, but really, surrounded by "lake effect snow bands" on three sides, we realize that we are in a very pleasant micro-climate here in Toronto.

Besides, it's soared back up to 0C/32F. I'll probably take the bike out to go shopping...the rum supply is waning!
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Old 04-01-2012, 15:11   #60
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Re: Hard Freeze Warning in Florida Areas what are you doing?

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
It may be different in Canada, I don't know, but here "hard freeze" is an agricultural warning.


Freeze Warning - Widespread temperatures at or below 32 °F (0 °C) during the growing season. A freeze may occur with or without frost. A hard freeze occurs with temperatures below 28 °F (−2 °C).[32]

MIKE MOSS SAYS: Larry, There isn't really a single "official" definition of the term. In general, "hard freeze" is used to imply temperatures that are sufficiently cold, for a long enough period, to seriously damage or kill seasonal vegetation. In our area, this usually means temperatures falling into the upper 20s or lower for at least two to three hours. There are some weather service offices that have established specific criteria for a hard freeze watch or warning that may be more intense than the generic definition I just listed - for example, the Mobile AL forecast office lists criteria for its hard freeze warning as temperatures 26 degrees or lower for at least 5 hours. They intend this warning to alert people to the potential for frozen pipes, radiators, livestock and so on, not just damage to sensitive plants.

Here we should add more information about the pattern and levels of freezes. The
freeze information comes from the “West Central Florida Freezes History” (NOAA,
accessed 2005) in which hard freezes are defined as three hours or more of temperatures
below 27°F and “A history of Florida citrus freezes” (Attaway,1997). In general, a
widespread killing freeze is defined as several hours of readings below the mid 20s,
relatively low humidity values sufficient to prevent frost formation, and little or no
temperature difference between flat and hilly terrain. In the “West Central Florida
Freezes history”, five hard freezes (1962, 1977, 1983, 1985, and 1989) were listed.
Fourteen hard freezes and six soft freezes were listed by Attaway (1997), and Attaway
(2004) lists the six years with most destructive January freezes. But it did not mean
freezes just affected the production of these years - because the recovery of orange trees
requires 3-7 years. So the years affected by freezes are even more. However, moderate
freezes did not decrease the orange production for juice, on the contrary, soft freezes
could increase juice orange supply a little bit because the quality of fresh use oranges
became worse, and what would have gone for fresh (higher quality fruit) instead is
processed. Since most oranges in Florida are for juice, soft freezes are not regarded as
supply shocks to orange juice production.

citrus and strawberries here. follow the money as always. very important.
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