Hard Bottom Paints and Practical Sailor...

Christian Van H · 31-10-2009, 16:09

Anybody out there know which Hard (non-ablative) bottom paints were top rated by Practical Sailor or any other source? I'm about to Hot Coat my last MAS epoxy barrier coat with some form of Anti-fouling. I'll be puttin' on a couple of ablative over top in the spring, but want a hard, contrasting color bottom paint permanently underneath... Thanks, Chris

barnakiel · 31-10-2009, 18:10

top or not they seem to work better in one area and worse in another, probably best look what the locals use and follow (though it is not always the golden rule),

b.

s/v Jedi · 31-10-2009, 21:26

Chris,

I know I told you about this, but I changed my mind: do not "hot coat" it. I have heard some horror stories and don't think it's worth the risk anymore. They change the anti-fouling recipes so often that the risk of incompatibility is too high.

My new advise: let the epoxy cure, scrub with water and Scotchpad and put a thinned coat of hard Trinidad on, followed by a non-thinned coat. Use that rusty-red color. Put one or two coats ablative over that, check compatibility tables but most will be compatible.

cheers,
Nick.

Christian Van H · 31-10-2009, 21:40

Trinidad huh? There are some rumors goin' round about trinidad losing some of it's umph... have you heard anything? I spoke to MAS epoxies a few weeks back. They said they have never heard of a bottom paint failure over their epoxy if washed and scuffed... BTW, you suggesting red because of copper content?

**Boracay** · 31-10-2009, 21:58

Round here the locals put a few coats of International Primocon vinyl aluminium primer on anything underwater that looks suspicious.

s/v Jedi · 01-11-2009, 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christian Van H

Trinidad huh? There are some rumors goin' round about trinidad losing some of it's umph... have you heard anything? I spoke to MAS epoxies a few weeks back. They said they have never heard of a bottom paint failure over their epoxy if washed and scuffed... BTW, you suggesting red because of copper content?

Trinidad has never been good in the tropics. I advise hard Trinidad as the first layer on the epoxy, to be painted over with another (ablative) anti fouling for most cruisers.

The color: primary to get it contrasting with the paint you put over it but yes, the red and black are still somewhat better than other colors, but not so much as they used to.

If you're getting ready to cross an ocean, I would use a hard anti fouling; probably black hard Trinidad over the first red coat. For all other use I would choose ablative. Ablative's come in different grades too, some quite hard.

Epoxy: yep, wash and scuff is the safest prep. A notice a lot of paint manufacturers advise to use their primer coat but one should keep in mind that they make more money that way and many primers are epoxy too.

BTW, it is the harder that can make trouble, not the resin; and the amine is suspect. Wash and scrub with water gets rid of the amine blush (it's water soluble). What also helps is to let the epoxy cure longer, like 2 weeks. When there's other work to be done on the boat, that would not be a problem.

cheers,
Nick.

fstbttms · 01-11-2009, 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christian Van H

Trinidad huh? There are some rumors goin' round about trinidad losing some of it's umph... have you heard anything? BTW, you suggesting red because of copper content?

Trinidad remains the best all-around anti fouling paint available in the U.S., IMHO. And I have never found there to be any difference whatsoever in its performance, be it green, red, black or any other color. Copper content is not a factor when comparing different colors of the same product line. Again, IMHO.

Maren · 01-11-2009, 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Trinidad remains the best all-around anti fouling paint available in the U.S., IMHO. And I have never found there to be any difference whatsoever in its performance, be it green, red, black or any other color. Copper content is not a factor when comparing different colors of the same product line. Again, IMHO.

How does that compare with copperpoxy? I know it isn't really an apples to apples case but it seems like a good option for some.

fstbttms · 01-11-2009, 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maren

How does that compare with copperpoxy? I know it isn't really an apples to apples case but it seems like a good option for some.

As I mentioned in another thread here today, copper-loaded epoxies (like Copperpoxy) are terrible anti foulings, at least here in California. I suspect they may perform better in regions with low fouling, but their record here is so poor that we (thankfully) almost never run across boats that use them anymore. I certainly can't recommend them.

31-10-2009, 16:09	#1
Christian Van H Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Princeton, NJ Boat: Challenger Anacapa 42 Posts: 1,202	Hard Bottom Paints and Practical Sailor... Anybody out there know which Hard (non-ablative) bottom paints were top rated by Practical Sailor or any other source? I'm about to Hot Coat my last MAS epoxy barrier coat with some form of Anti-fouling. I'll be puttin' on a couple of ablative over top in the spring, but want a hard, contrasting color bottom paint permanently underneath... Thanks, Chris __________________ Here's to swimmin' with bowlegged women! "There's nothing . . . absolutely nothing . . . half so much worth doing as simply throwing money at a boat."

31-10-2009, 21:40	#4
Christian Van H Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Princeton, NJ Boat: Challenger Anacapa 42 Posts: 1,202	Trinidad huh? There are some rumors goin' round about trinidad losing some of it's umph... have you heard anything? I spoke to MAS epoxies a few weeks back. They said they have never heard of a bottom paint failure over their epoxy if washed and scuffed... BTW, you suggesting red because of copper content? __________________ Here's to swimmin' with bowlegged women! "There's nothing . . . absolutely nothing . . . half so much worth doing as simply throwing money at a boat."

31-10-2009, 21:58	#5
Boracay Moderator Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: nr Blackwattle Bay,Sydney, NSW, Australia Boat: Steel Roberts Offshore 44 Posts: 1,879	Locals use... Round here the locals put a few coats of International Primocon vinyl aluminium primer on anything underwater that looks suspicious. __________________ Rust never sleeps Boracay Blog.

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31-10-2009, 18:10	#2
barnakiel Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea Boat: a sailing boat Posts: 919	top or not they seem to work better in one area and worse in another, probably best look what the locals use and follow (though it is not always the golden rule), b.

31-10-2009, 21:26	#3
s/v Jedi Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Boat: Sundeer 64 - Jedi Posts: 1,519	Chris, I know I told you about this, but I changed my mind: do not "hot coat" it. I have heard some horror stories and don't think it's worth the risk anymore. They change the anti-fouling recipes so often that the risk of incompatibility is too high. My new advise: let the epoxy cure, scrub with water and Scotchpad and put a thinned coat of hard Trinidad on, followed by a non-thinned coat. Use that rusty-red color. Put one or two coats ablative over that, check compatibility tables but most will be compatible. cheers, Nick.