Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 20-04-2013, 13:29   #76
Registered User
 
Panope's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Washington State
Boat: Colvin, Saugeen Witch (Aluminum), 34'
Posts: 1,376
Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Boom Gallows

Arch was fabricated from 3/16" plate. The "corner welds" were applied liberally and the excess material was removed/shaped with a router. The boom crotch is allowed to pivot down when sailing. The Wire protruding downward will power a forward facing deck light. The pictured spar is the mast.

Steve
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	999 016.jpg
Views:	125
Size:	419.8 KB
ID:	59546   Click image for larger version

Name:	999 017.jpg
Views:	122
Size:	417.3 KB
ID:	59547  

__________________

Panope is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2013, 16:00   #77
Registered User
 
Panope's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Washington State
Boat: Colvin, Saugeen Witch (Aluminum), 34'
Posts: 1,376
Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Pic #1. Raw water strainer bracket fabricated from 3/16" plate. Removal of strainer lid requires a lot of twisting force.

Pic #2. Stern tube. A hose barb was machined into tube prior to welding. Hose is by Buck Algonquin.

Pic #3 and 4. Gaff saddle. Throat of sail fits between the ears and is affixed by a bolt. Sail remains close or in-contact with spars. Saddle lined with felt. Hoop is a 1/4" SS threaded rod. Rollers (I forget the proper name for these. parrels?) are made of Starboard.

Steve
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2012 MAY 311.jpg
Views:	123
Size:	407.1 KB
ID:	59565   Click image for larger version

Name:	2013 Feb 172.jpg
Views:	130
Size:	417.7 KB
ID:	59571  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMAG0121.jpg
Views:	128
Size:	397.6 KB
ID:	59573   Click image for larger version

Name:	555 018.jpg
Views:	127
Size:	411.9 KB
ID:	59575  

__________________

Panope is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2013, 16:37   #78
Registered User
 
Panope's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Washington State
Boat: Colvin, Saugeen Witch (Aluminum), 34'
Posts: 1,376
Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Interior.

Panope's interior is basically untouched and in its original finish, from 35 years ago. All wood work by my father.

Just under the closest boot (pic #1) is where the old main mast was stepped. One of the major reasons for converting to a sloop rig was to eliminate this mast from the saloon. It was not just a small diameter compression post. The mast really cluttered up and made the space feel smaller than it already is.

I have some minor plans to rearrange the table/settee's and to rebuild the galley counter tops a little higher and inboard. Both to improve ergonomics and comfort. I may also add to the painted (white) areas to brighten up the "cave".

Stain glass is original and in keeping with the period (1970's) of her original build. Pretty cool also.

Steve
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2012 Aug 353.jpg
Views:	166
Size:	429.8 KB
ID:	59577   Click image for larger version

Name:	3333 027.jpg
Views:	156
Size:	421.2 KB
ID:	59579  

Click image for larger version

Name:	3333 028.jpg
Views:	129
Size:	333.3 KB
ID:	59580  
Panope is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2013, 18:28   #79
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,441
Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Beautiful, Steve, just beautiful

Yes, Parrel beads is the usual term, but yours look a lot slidier and better behaved than the traditional variety ...

One thing I love about gaff rigs is the ability to reef or drop the sail even when running off in a gale, and I imagine that's even more true for such a well-thought out rig as yours, using modern materials and design concepts.

In confined waters I get quite twitchy sailing some modern rigs which virtually require application of more than human power to do some routine sailhandling duties.

I'm just working on the design at the moment for a rig for a vessel which will be sailed in testing fiord conditions where the wind can shift through a hundred degrees and increase by half-a-hundred knots with little if any warning - the only other rig I'm familiar with which can be engineered to be reliable in such situations (although most are not) is in-mast furling, with a hollow-cut (what used to be called "Swedish") heavy-air mainsail living inside the mast.

I've been pondering for decades on how to combine this with a light-weather mainsail of generous size, which can easily be deployed on a short standing rig.

I worked out a way to make this work using another "old tech" solution for that light main: a sliding gunter, but using something along the lines of a Laser mast for the topmast, probably in a luff pocket, which would travel up with the sail.

The problem was that the mast section I drew up to make this possible was going to be a special, which put it out of consideration.

However just in the last few years I've come across almost the exact profile I need (from Selden) so the idea's back on the front burner.

Seeing your nice tabernacle reminded me of it, and I've had a few spare hours to fool around with ideas and it's falling into place quite nicely. Thanks VERY much for your truly inspirational example, and for blessing us with this wonderful and soul-enriching thread.

(Loved your toggle catches for the wheelhouse windows, BTW ... and it occurred to me they'd also make very welcome and robust handholds in a useful place, on the odd white-knuckle occasion!)
__________________
Andrew Troup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2013, 19:16   #80
Registered User
 
Panope's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Washington State
Boat: Colvin, Saugeen Witch (Aluminum), 34'
Posts: 1,376
Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
Yes, Parrel beads is the usual term, but yours look a lot slidier and better behaved than the traditional variety ...
Thanks for the clarification.

I tried (once) to reuse the original, wooden parrels that my father had made of teak. The holes were no longer in the center and raising the main was very difficult. I went home after that test sail and immediately made up a batch of these plastic (Starboard) ones. What a difference - absolutely no jamming.

Steve
Panope is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2013, 20:40   #81
Registered User
 
Panope's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Washington State
Boat: Colvin, Saugeen Witch (Aluminum), 34'
Posts: 1,376
Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Why change from schooner rig to sloop?

When I dismantled Panope 13 years ago, she was in desperate need of a proper paint job but needed little else. She was fully operational. Her sails were good (probably still are), her rigging was sound and her engine ran perfect.

These are the reasons in no particular order that I went to such great lengths to modify her:

-I wanted a pilot house to stay warm and dry.
-The old mainsail/boom would not clear pilot house and needed to be re-cut.
-The pilot house added weight up high so I wanted to reduce the weight of the rig (one mast instead of 2) to maintain stiffness.
-The pilot house added windage so I wanted to reduce the windage of the rig. Previously, Panope would not make any progress (under engine power) into more than about 30 knots of wind. So, in addition to minimizing windage, I increased horsepower form 15 to 40.
- I wanted to simplify the rig: One mast instead of two. One gaff instead of two. Two shrouds instead of six. Two sails instead of three or four (she sails and tacks fine on main alone). One boom instead of two. No triatic stay. No bowsprit to clutter fore deck (and dangerous to be on). No bobstay to interfere with anchor rode.
-I wanted to eliminate the main mast from the saloon.
- I wanted to shorten L.O.A. to simplify close quarter maneuvering and reduce dock/haulout/storage fees.
- I wanted to eliminate wood from the exterior (actually, this was my fathers only suggestion regarding the basic goals and design of this project).
- I wanted something different.
- I like projects.

Because I have no plans to venture off-shore, the benefits of the schooner rig (smaller, easily handled sails and stay sail sheet to tiller steering) are no longer needed.

Steve
Panope is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2013, 23:57   #82
Registered User
 
Panope's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Washington State
Boat: Colvin, Saugeen Witch (Aluminum), 34'
Posts: 1,376
Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Starboard.

I bought One full sheet of 3/4" Starboard to be used for the pilot house sole, stairs and aft deck seats. I have found many uses for the leftover scrap (several have already been discussed above). Here are a few more examples of parts made from starboard.

Pic #1. Anchor windlass lever handle.

Pic #2. Windlass lever in the stowed position.

Pic #3. Boom Gallow.

Pic #4. Companion way hatch stopper.

Pic #5. Solar panel fair-lead.

Pic #6. Electrical wire anti chafe.

Pic #7. Hatch bumper.

Steve
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	000 021.jpg
Views:	137
Size:	442.6 KB
ID:	59922   Click image for larger version

Name:	000 022.jpg
Views:	129
Size:	417.7 KB
ID:	59923  

Click image for larger version

Name:	000 007.jpg
Views:	121
Size:	405.5 KB
ID:	59924   Click image for larger version

Name:	000 008.jpg
Views:	138
Size:	400.7 KB
ID:	59925  

Click image for larger version

Name:	000 009.jpg
Views:	124
Size:	410.6 KB
ID:	59926   Click image for larger version

Name:	000 011.jpg
Views:	132
Size:	408.0 KB
ID:	59927  

Click image for larger version

Name:	000 015.jpg
Views:	132
Size:	405.6 KB
ID:	59928  
Panope is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2013, 00:23   #83
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,441
Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

That's REALLY classy, leaving the surface pattern intact, but routing those neat radii. Especially on that last hatch bumper, gets around that 'worn sneaker sole' look (although it too is attractive, I reckon)

I've never used it in large panels, but the freedom from maintenance does appeal, it machines so much better than UHMW PE, and I seem to remember it's stiffer than the usual run of industrial plastics.

How do you find it for stiffness over an appreciable span, compared with similar thickness of plywood ( I guess it's hard to judge, given it's so much thicker than one would usually buy ply)?
__________________
Andrew Troup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2013, 00:24   #84
Registered User
 
Panope's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Washington State
Boat: Colvin, Saugeen Witch (Aluminum), 34'
Posts: 1,376
Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Line Bag.

Panope originally had two large (useful but grotesque) deck boxes welded to the forward cabin house top. They would have been in the direct line of sight when seated in the new pilothouse. Both boxes were discarded.

I hired a local canvas worker to make this line storage bag. It "hides" in line with the mast so it does not affect forward visibility. Bag has vertical batons sewn into the four corners and horizontal batons around the opening to maintain shape. Bag will be lashed to tabs after finish painting.

Regarding pilothouse design, A strong negative aspect that I must accept is the inability to use the cabin house for storage of dinghy's, life rafts, kayaks etc.

Steve
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	000 023.jpg
Views:	129
Size:	423.6 KB
ID:	59929   Click image for larger version

Name:	000 024.jpg
Views:	129
Size:	427.3 KB
ID:	59930  

Panope is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2013, 00:41   #85
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,441
Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Steve

Do you notice any difference to sailing performance?

(Neither of the boats I mentioned at the start of this thread, who reduced from two masts to one, reported any significant overall penalty)
__________________
Andrew Troup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2013, 00:50   #86
Registered User
 
Panope's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Washington State
Boat: Colvin, Saugeen Witch (Aluminum), 34'
Posts: 1,376
Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
That's REALLY classy, leaving the surface pattern intact, but routing those neat radii. Especially on that last hatch bumper, gets around that 'worn sneaker sole' look (although it too is attractive, I reckon)

I've never used it in large panels, but the freedom from maintenance does appeal, it machines so much better than UHMW PE, and I seem to remember it's stiffer than the usual run of industrial plastics.

How do you find it for stiffness over an appreciable span, compared with similar thickness of plywood ( I guess it's hard to judge, given it's so much thicker than one would usually buy ply)?
It is pretty impressive stuff. I have only had Starboard out in the sun for one year - so far no change in color, sheen or consistency. I hope it outlasts me.

I have noticed that UHMW PE does very poorly when exposed to long term sunlight.

Compared to same thickness plywood (3/4"), Starboard is not quite as stiff. I have a piece in the pilothouse sole that is about 2 foot by 2 foot square and supported only around the perimeter. I can feel it deflecting underfoot (I weigh 160 lbs.) but no way will it break. Not sure how it would do with a permanently applied force - it may creep over time.

I have done destructive testing of scraps in a bench vise. The stuff will withstand multiple 90 degree bends before eventually separating. Kinda like Lexan with zero tendency to crack.
Panope is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2013, 01:13   #87
Registered User
 
Panope's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Washington State
Boat: Colvin, Saugeen Witch (Aluminum), 34'
Posts: 1,376
Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
Steve

Do you notice any difference to sailing performance?

(Neither of the boats I mentioned at the start of this thread, who reduced from two masts to one, reported any significant overall penalty)
This is a difficult question to answer. I only had the new rig in the water for 2 months last summer. 12 years elapsed between any sailing between the two rigs. In fact, I personally did not do any sailing during that time.

We have never had any kind of speed log and frankly, we never really cared much how fast we were going.

Basically, she has always had (still has) two modes: Light wind meant plenty of movement but no excitement. More wind (15-18kts.) and rail goes in the water, nice bone in her teeth and lots of fun.

I do believe that performance has possibly been reduced. However, in addition to the rig change, I fitted a much larger diameter 3 blade (fixed) propeller in place of the old 2 blade (that could be "hidden" behind the keel).

Also, I have a bit more weather helm than previously (the correction stradegy of this will be the subject of an upcoming post).

Steve
Panope is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2013, 01:24   #88
Registered User
 
Panope's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Washington State
Boat: Colvin, Saugeen Witch (Aluminum), 34'
Posts: 1,376
Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Here are a couple of shots from Panope's original launch in 1982.

We lived at the end of a long steep gravel road with a very sharp switchback. Conventional boat mover trailer could not negotiate this corner. My father hired a local house mover to make the 4 mile journey to the launch ramp at low tide.

Last shot is of Dad and I moments after she floated free.

Steve
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	img432.jpg
Views:	160
Size:	277.6 KB
ID:	59931   Click image for larger version

Name:	img093.jpg
Views:	167
Size:	250.7 KB
ID:	59932  

Click image for larger version

Name:	img100.jpg
Views:	170
Size:	187.5 KB
ID:	59933   Click image for larger version

Name:	img431.jpg
Views:	147
Size:	253.3 KB
ID:	59934  

Panope is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2013, 11:49   #89
Registered User
 
Panope's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Washington State
Boat: Colvin, Saugeen Witch (Aluminum), 34'
Posts: 1,376
Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Fastener isolation.

Best practice for fastening hardware (bolts etc.) to aluminum is to create 100% isolation using paint, sealant, plastic sleeves and plastic washers/spacers. This is desirable even if one is using aluminum fasteners in aluminum structure, as corrosion may still occur (despite being similar metal) in the crevice between. Some people even demand this high standard for areas below deck and in relatively dry areas.

Throughout this thread, you will notice that I have not isolated many fasteners. Without a doubt, some corrosion will occur in some of these connections. Many others will have no issues.

I have 35 years (19 in salt water) of experience with this boat using a variety of isolation standards. Overall, corrosion around fasteners has been a very small and infrequent problem. Here are some of my thoughts on the subject:

- Stainless steel gets along pretty good with aluminum. Do not use bronze.
- My rainy location (Washington State) may reduce fastener corrosion by continually "washing" away salt.
- I do not cruise off-shore and see relatively calm seas - so not as much salt spray.
- An occasional shot of lubricant/corrosion blocker on hinges or other movable items is a big help.
- Many areas are not painted and if corrosion occurs, effects are minimal.
- Panope has an "industrial" finish. Any paint touch ups are easy to accomplish with a grinder and a brush (broom ).
- Below decks are dry and I have not seen any issues down below previously.
- Holes that may elongate after numerous movements (rigging, hinges) can be drilled oversize and sleeved with a stainless steel insert or simply welded closed and re-drilled. Note: I have never needed to do this on Panope.
- Some connections will be isolated later as the pace of the project slows. I keep a selection of plastic bits on board. These kinds of projects are good while on the hook with beer in hand.

Picture is of a handrail gate hinge. fully isolated with nylon sleeves and spacers of Starboard.

Steve
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2013 Feb 142.jpg
Views:	127
Size:	344.5 KB
ID:	59957  
Panope is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2013, 15:26   #90
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,441
Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

I'm posting this for the benefit of anyone reading this who's contemplating building or upgrading in aluminium, because clearly Steve's nailed it for his specific needs. Having said that, even you might want to consider some of these options, Steve, further down the track, when you're tossing up the merits of adding isolation bushes and washers in some instances where it seems necessary:

There's another couple of arrows in the quiver, which involve some form of surface coating. The first of these applies specifically when using stainless fasteners or hinge pins or brackets: cadmium plating the SS helps a lot to prevent or delay the onset of the dreaded chalk dust on the adjacent alu.

It's actually pretty effective, especially in combination with something like Tef-gel or Duralac (still not as good as full isolation, but a LOT less work). It even improves the corrosion resistance of the stainless, particularly in respect of the nastier diseases it is occasionally prone to, such as crevice corrosion or pitting from oxygen deprivation, where the stainless item essentially attacks and consumes itself.

It can do this under certain circumstances because it's capable of simultaneously occupying two different locations on the galvanic scale, meaning it acts as both cathode and anode in an electrochemical cell, requiring only a conductive partner like salt water or damp salt crystals to form an ad hoc battery.

Sorry to use Steve's thread as a pulpit; he'll know this stuff but I'm thinking of interested parties who might not ...

Cadmium over SS is pretty standard in aircraft practice. It's a two step process, first a flash of nickel (known as a 'nickel strike'), then -- with minimal delay because the nickel will passivate otherwise -- plate over that with cadmium.


If you've got a mate in the aerospace industry (shouldn't be hard in Washington State?) you might be able to get this done to aircraft standards at mate's rates

(Cadmium is a nasty element, so it's harder to get it done than when I first did a batch, many decades ago - I got a big boxload done for free, tee hee, back in the days of laissez faire management - well, as a reciprocal favour, to be fair ... There are hopefully still enough left to break the back of my next project)

Another arrow in the quiver is anodising the aluminium. It's not easy to do to big structures (there is such a thing as 'pad anodising', but hardly practical).

However it's quite practicable and very affordable for small stuff, provided you send it to the plater (anodisers usually also do plating) in decent sized batches. It's worth waiting until any new hardware has been thoroughly debugged in service, This is so that no further features (holes, chamfers, edge rounding, rebates etc) will need to be added in future which would destroy the protective layer.
It's also worth well rounding any edges where there's any prospect of wear or handling, as the anodising will last a lot longer. You do need to make sure it's done to a marine standard (thicker build). If you're building a gold-plater, go for Hard-Kote™ !

A third is one of the newer coatings such as Nyalic, often used on aluminium powerboats and flatbeds for upmarket utes. There are also products intended for 'deck liners' - I don't have any direct experience with anything in this paragraph, so hopefully someone who does might chime in.

A related solution: If you need to thread stainless into aluminium, there's a product worth knowing about: Stainless Helicoils are available these days with a surface coating called "Primer-Free™", specifically intended for isolation. I assume it's dipped in some sort of thermoplastic. I haven't used any yet because I've only recently found out about them.

This seems like a great solution, because helicoils are a match made in heaven for fastening direct to aluminium, which is too soft and weak to handle bolts being run into and out of holes more than a couple of times, especially once a bit of the dreaded chalk-dust puts in an abrasive appearance.

Even in a once-only assembly scenario, Helicoil-style inserts provide a stronger connection with aluminium, partly because the diameter of the thread into the alu is increased wrt the bolt, and partly because the compliance of the spring-like helicoil acts to distribute the load through the entire depth of the tapped hole, unlike a solid metal-to-metal interface.

Helicoils or similar inserts also help us by eliminating nuts, and sometimes eliminate the need for a second person to hold a spanner on the nut.

... and/or they help by allowing fastening in blind hole situations (which is great on deck or tankbuilding, where you don't want to drill through for leakage prevention reasons)

They're also, at least theoretically, available in cadmium over stainless.

Installing helicoils is not a trivial exercise if you're not a machinist, though: there are a few pitfalls, but anyone who's keen to know more and doesn't have their own domesticated pet machinist can PM me.

I've probably forgotten a few other options but that's something to be going on with for anyone interested.

I first got interested in the interaction of stainless and aluminium when I went to remove the alu frames from the cabin side ports on my first (FRP) sailboat.

The stainless fasteners were immovable. The heads twisted off every single one: stupidly I carried on. What I should have done was leave the heads intact, and make up a drill jig bush which fitted over the heads, so I could more easily drill the fasteners away.
This is done using a drill the same size as the fastener - in practice, you need to use a somewhat smaller drill, so it stays within the fastener as long as possible. If it breaks out one side, it dives off in that direction into the adjacent part, which is no fun. Drilling stainless by hand is NEVER fun.

The interesting discovery was that around every hole, the aluminium frame had created so much white powdery corrosion product * around the hole, at the (invisible) interface with the fibreglass, that it had tried to jack the frames off the cabin side. But being prevented by the fasteners, it had instead crushed the fibreglass significantly.

Luckily one of the fasteners was not up to the strain, and broke, because I was unaware of the problem until then. When I tried to punch the shank of the fastener out, it was immovable, and that's when I started to notice a faint stench of rat.

* which I'm led to believe is hydrated aluminium oxide. Some of the attached product in chronic and contained cases like this tends to be a semi gel-like, semi glass-like, more coherent body, semitranslucent, with a greyish /vaguely greenish hue.

The problem is this: the density of this corrosion product is remarkably low in comparison even with aluminium, which means the volume is considerably greater, over six times as great, and in cases like this, there's nowhere for it to go.
__________________

__________________
Andrew Troup is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:09.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.