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Old 27-03-2014, 21:04   #226
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Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
Steve

I think Minaret is talking about the underside of your *existing lip* - perhaps he doesn't realise that (unless I am mistaken?) it still forms the underside of your proposed brow?

For what little it's worth, and judging only from the photos, I like the look of the original, and I like it better than with the proposed addition.

To me the original lip seems more in keeping with the overall look and feel, where the forms are highly functional and purposeful.

Admittedly (as you point out) the proposed extension hides what's on top of the deck-house, but only from a limited sector.

I'm assuming that the new brow would be welded in place, making it all essentially one piece. Leaving the underside bare or painting it white or any color in gloss would be a mistake IMO. I think it much improves the look of the house, and may also provide a touch more shade to the helmsman in the house. Or am I remembering that the wheel is aft in this house?
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Old 27-03-2014, 21:08   #227
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Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

It looks to me like in this pic of the mock up, the "visor" extends well past the original front of the house. This makes it a brow to me. It's underside will be exposed to anyone in the front of the house, and the angle will probably be perfect to reflect an occasional blinding glare into the house if left bare or gloss.
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Old 27-03-2014, 21:46   #228
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Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Andrew, Minaret:

The brow does extend about 4 inches forward of the existing edge (near the boat centerline) and therefore could conceivably reflect light back into the house. As one moves away from centerline, the overhangs reduces to zero at the outboard ends of the brow.

The helm is at the aft bulkhead. When seated near the helm, the underside of the brow is not visible. Not sure if it is visible when seated forward in the house - I'll check tomorrow.

I am still on the fence about implementing this addition. Obviously, I like simple, functional stuff but I have always felt the forward edge of the lid was too thin or light looking. Also, I was not able to achieve a perfectly fair bend in the tube that wraps around the edge. I am probably the only one who notices it but unfortunately I cannot stop seeing the flaw.

Hense the desire to cover it up.

Steve
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Old 27-03-2014, 22:55   #229
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Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Build the brow and paint it to match your green trim (Foss Green?), gloss on top and flat underneath. That's my vote. I like the shape of the mock up.


I bet even with the helm aft you will spend a lot of time sitting elsewhere in the house with the AP on.
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Old 28-03-2014, 18:06   #230
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Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
Steve
For what little it's worth, and judging only from the photos, I like the look of the original, and I like it better than with the proposed addition.

To me the original lip seems more in keeping with the overall look and feel, where the forms are highly functional and purposeful.
Andrew,

I agree completely that high functionality has been a high priority of mine and I very much want to keep that way.

However, I have grown up in an area with a very strong maritime heritage that has strongly affected my sense of what boats are "supposed" to look like.

I am still vacillating, but the more I study the boats that I like to look at, the more I tend toward adding the brow.

steve
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Old 28-03-2014, 19:12   #231
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Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panope View Post
Andrew,

I agree completely that high functionality has been a high priority of mine and I very much want to keep that way.

However, I have grown up in an area with a very strong maritime heritage that has strongly affected my sense of what boats are "supposed" to look like.

I am still vacillating, but the more I study the boats that I like to look at, the more I tend toward adding the brow.

steve


Nice! I ask if your trim is Foss Green, and you post a bunch of pics of boats done in Foss Green!
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Old 28-03-2014, 19:21   #232
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Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Minaret,

I am using a stock PPG Amershield color called "Forest Green".

It is pretty close to Foss Green but perhaps a little darker.

Steve
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Old 28-03-2014, 19:47   #233
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Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panope View Post
Minaret,

I am using a stock PPG Amershield color called "Forest Green".

It is pretty close to Foss Green but perhaps a little darker.

Steve


I'm familiar. You mix Forest Green and Spruce Green about 50/50 and add a hint of black to make Foss. I've seen wide shade variation even in the Foss fleet though. Had a Garden Porpoise painted Foss Green with black trim, very PNW. I doubt you'll ever be really happy with that house without a brow....
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Old 31-03-2014, 20:48   #234
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Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

I bought some metal this afternoon and got started on the Visor.

I could not decide between 1/8" and 3/16" material. Very happy that my local metal supplier had some 5/32" stuff on hand - perfect.

The two halves will be welded together to form a single unit. Final attachment will be with bolts.

Steve
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Old 31-03-2014, 22:34   #235
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Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panope View Post
When seated near the helm, the underside of the brow is not visible. Not sure if it is visible when seated forward in the house - I'll check tomorrow.
Steve
Even if the underside of the brow is not visible while helming, you may get reflections off the internal surface of the windows. It would minimise reflections if you painted the underside a flat black. It is the safest thing to do.

Cosmetically, I would paint the top of the brow whatever colour you are painting the top of the pilothouse, but this is a very personal call .
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Old 01-04-2014, 15:10   #236
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Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Seaworthy: Good point about the glare on the glass. I will paint the underside with grey epoxy primer, then scuff with scotch bright to get rid of the "shine"

Here is the Brow in its final shape. I will wait a couple days before painting.

Steve
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Old 05-04-2014, 23:06   #237
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Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

If you recall an earlier post about my fuel tanks, you will remember that I built them high in the boat and with the fuel supply fittings at the extreme bottom of the tanks as opposed the the more common "top of tank with internal tube" systems. I prefer that any water that enters or collects in the tanks immediately exit the tank to be separated and removed from the system.

I built this sump from an old chunk of aluminum pipe and some 1/2" pipe adapters. Capacity is about 1 liter. This component serves two purposes: First, It provides a (nearly) central point between the Port and Starboard fuel tanks to draw fuel to the engine. This will allow motorsailing (healing) without starving the engine of fuel (due to fuel in windward tank draining into the other). The second function is to provide an extreme "low point" of the entire fuel system to collect water. Sump is located in a convenient position for frequent "sumping" (draining a small amount of fuel to check for contamination).

No doubt that my experience with aircraft as affected my decisions in designing this system. Virtually all aircraft have a low points (with quick drains) in their tanks and at various locations along the fuel system. It is standard operating procedure to "sump" the system at very frequent intervals.

It is not acceptable to have water "stored" at the bottom of an aircraft fuel tank with the pilot hoping that turbulence does not "stir it up" and fail an engine. Ditto for boats

As to the construction details....It is generally bad practice to use bronze fittings in aluminum because of dissimilar metal corrosion. Stainless steel is preferred and I will change out the bushing that the drain valve is attached to, as that area will likely see some water at times. I believe that in the areas that will only see fuel, there will be no problem with using bronze. Perhaps someone with more metallurgical knowledge (Andrew) can confirm or debunk my suspicions.

Sump was pressure tested to 10 psi.. 4 leaks were re-welded....Sigh.....If only my welder could be used to tig weld aluminum.

Lastly, A pipe plug will be used in the "business end" of the drain valve so I don't accidentally bump the handle and dump all the fuel into the bilge.

Steve
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Old 06-04-2014, 00:03   #238
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Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Steve

Nice thinking! That's a great thing to do.

I personally would avoid ANY brass or bronze fittings and go to all-stainless if at all possible - any buildup of salt on the outside of the sump/fitting interface (not even visibly thick) is hygroscopic, so it can create a conductive path between the fitting and the aluminium, happily crossing any thread tape or dope. Imagine a wee trail of tiny invisible ants marching 24/7/365, each one taking a subatomic nibble.

However you may well consider it to be in a location easy enough to keep it clean and dry, in which case I'm sure you won't have a problem if you just interpose a stainless nipple. (well doped, of course - for the benefit of others who might read this)

As an aside:

I did the consulting decades ago for a shallow stainless steel fuel tank under the cockpit floor of a small but very highly specced offshore sailboat.

The tank was rectangular in plan view, level top, but sloping bottom (deepest forrard) and mindful that access to any clean-out ports would be impossible, we came up with a pair of sumps just like yours (except for the material, naturally, and in our case they were not separated from the tank, but integral) at the forrard outboard corners.

I think the entire bottom screws off for major cleanout, the "sump" being a large bore stainless internally threaded nipple, but the hex boss of the plug is threaded for a ball valve just like your drain valve, with a smaller plug for the exact same reason!

From there we ran the fuel forrard separately from a takeoff near the top of either sump, with the two lines joining at a two-way selector valve, in case it was ever necessary to motorsail at a heavy angle of heel with a near empty tank, or to buy time if one of the sumps or takeoff lines become corrupted. VERY similar thinking to yours.

In a belt and braces move, I built a second sump like yours at the high point of the subsequent run, but it was much smaller. It had a clear section at the bottom (for water separation) and a longer one at the top, for air to separate out if the fuel were to come frothy from the tank.

The upper chamber can also be used as a gravity feed, for bleeding (or even to keep the motor running by refilling it with a turkey baster or battery hydrometer from a spare jerry, if the main tank developed a major issue)

The first time I made it, it was bored (from both ends) in a solid round billet of Perspex (US=Plexiglass) - with all sorts of internal ports and passages all visible at the midpoint, even when I was machining it ... great fun! and if I do say so it was a work of art ... large diameter integral "sight glass" sections gleaming at top and bottom, single-point internal threads and O ring grooves top and bottom and SAE O-ring ports for the lab quality Swagelok stainless pipe fittings ... a bit like looking at a 3D CAD solid model of a hydraulic manifold with "transparency" turned on ...

but within weeks a fine pattern of cracks started to propagate outwards from the "sight glass" bores, caused by residual stresses interacting with the hydrocarbons, either in the kerosene I used as a cutting lubricant, or the diesel fuel, or both .... so I had to remake the central section in aluminium (anodised) with large-bore beer hose (soft clear plastic) chambers top and bottom, with custom caps.

I hope someday someone will read this and be saved having to learn this wee lesson for themselves, the hard way ...

Another innovation was an overflow tank in the breather line, lower than the deck fill, consisting of a translucent window washer fluid tank, which, as well as gurgling and warning you the tank is now full (even if you forget to open the cockpit cave locker so you can see it start to fill up) also acts a bit like an airlock used for brewing wine, to keep atmospheric condensation at bay by greatly reducing the surface area in contact with ambient air. (Unlike petrol, the vapour pressure of diesel is insufficient to displace all the air in the tank.) This tank, being shallow, had a very large surface area (so of course it had to have multiple baffles)

The breather from that overflow tank ram into and part way up a pushpit stanchion, and there was either a porous plastic silencer (from a pneumatic valve) to slow down any loss of fuel (or water ingress) in the case of a capsize, or it might just have been a very fine-bored piece of tubing - almost capillary - I forget now.

I know we used ultra-fine bored beer hose for the breather from the (close-fitting) sealed battery box to vent any hydrogen (wet cells)



It's one of those cases where you take ALL the precautions, and 25 years on, there has never been any fuel issue on that vessel, whether water, air or diesel bacteria. The sumps get drained once a year, but it's a formality.

And the mast has never been in the water, let alone a 'proper' capsize.

Whereas IF we had omitted to take any precautions, you can bet we would have had unending problems ... at least, if John Vigor's "Black Box" theory has any merit.

(PS- I'm warming to your 'brow'!)
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Old 06-04-2014, 08:29   #239
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Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post

(PS- I'm warming to your 'brow'!)
Glad to hear it. I am thinking the brow will have more "function" than originally figured. In all but the most horizontal of rain and spray, the brow will keep the top portion of the windows clear.

Steve
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Old 10-04-2014, 15:38   #240
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Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Got the mast un-stepped and stowed for the upcoming road trip.

Here are a few shots of the upper section of the mast. All of this metal work was accomplished in 2010

Pic #1 - Shroud hounds. Fore stay in middle. One of the very few jobs that I hired out was the serving and parceling (the guy may have skipped the worm) of the two shrouds. The serving is 100% coverage and was done by machine. Local boat guy - very reasonable cost and saved me a bunch of time.

Pic #2 - Masthead. Four tangs of 3/8" aluminum.

Pic #3 - Mainsail peak halyard tang/block. Tang on forward side of mast unused thus far (one day I may tire of motoring in light wind and get some sort of gigantic light air headsail).

Steve
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