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Old 26-01-2012, 10:11   #16
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Re: Good News for the Barnacles Out West - Copper Paint Going Away

Copper anti fouling paints are not going away anytime soon in California. If anything, they're just going to be made less effective. You can thank your friends at Recreational Boaters Of California for that, courtesy of their disinformation campaign.

'Course, it'll be good for my business.
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Old 26-01-2012, 14:21   #17
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Re: Good News for the Barnacles Out West - Copper Paint Going Away

I have seen a report about comparative tests of "foul-release" paints. Hempasil performance was really impressive. But when I asked the Hempel representative at the Paris boat show about it, she told me it isn't sold to yachtspeople, only to shipyards.

However, it seems that the boatspeed must exceed 10kts for the fouling to go away. So, this paint isn't for ordinary sailing boats.

Alain
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Old 26-01-2012, 16:16   #18
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Re: Good News for the Barnacles Out West - Copper Paint Going Away

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I have seen a report about comparative tests of "foul-release" paints. Hempasil performance was really impressive. But when I asked the Hempel representative at the Paris boat show about it, she told me it isn't sold to yachtspeople, only to shipyards.

However, it seems that the boatspeed must exceed 10kts for the fouling to go away. So, this paint isn't for ordinary sailing boats.

Alain

Agreed. Not sure why Boat US put it in their cost comparison, but it's clearly marketed for big ships. The info in the link I posted says boat speed must exceed 8 knots for the paint to work. But it looks like an interesting step in the right direction at least. Several people on this forum have stated an interest in teflon-like materials for fouling release, seems like this is a good attempt to produce such a product and work out the kinks.
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Old 26-01-2012, 16:41   #19
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Re: Good News for the Barnacles Out West - Copper Paint Going Away

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Copper anti fouling paints are not going away anytime soon in California. If anything, they're just going to be made less effective. You can thank your friends at Recreational Boaters Of California for that, courtesy of their disinformation campaign.

'Course, it'll be good for my business.
Anyone just mixing it in? You can buy copper powder pretty cheap (relatively speaking) and just mix it into the paint. It's not like the paint wizards are doing anything more magical than that, I think.

ESPI Metals - High Purity Copper Powder
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Old 26-01-2012, 16:56   #20
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Re: Good News for the Barnacles Out West - Copper Paint Going Away

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Anyone just mixing it in? You can buy copper powder pretty cheap (relatively speaking) and just mix it into the paint. It's not like the paint wizards are doing anything more magical than that, I think.

ESPI Metals - High Purity Copper Powder

The ingredient in bottom paint is generally Cuprous Oxide, which is obviously an oxide of copper. So it is to copper what rust is to iron. Copper=Cu Cuprous Oxide= Cu2O Not really the same thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper(I)_oxide

http://www.chemet.com/products/cuprous_oxide.asp
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Old 26-01-2012, 18:52   #21
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Re: Good News for the Barnacles Out West - Copper Paint Going Away

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The ingredient in bottom paint is generally Cuprous Oxide, which is obviously an oxide of copper. So it is to copper what rust is to iron. Copper=Cu Cuprous Oxide= Cu2O Not really the same thing.

Copper(I) oxide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

American Chemet Corporation - Products - Cuprous Oxide
Just add salt water and wa la! What do you think that pink stuff is on my old strut? Some use to use copper sheeting on the bottoms.
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Old 26-01-2012, 19:29   #22
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Re: good news for the barnacles out west, copper paint going away

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A pretty useless bit of "data". Notice the prices on the table for copper paint are for the paint only, and the prices for the other options are for stripping as well as painting. Hardly fair. The fact is that zinc omadine paints are MUCH cheaper than copper, because they don't have all that expensive copper in it. At the price of copper these days it's like gold plating your bottom. No new data worth mentioning here.
Can you paint over the copper paint with the new paint? If not, then it is fair to show the cost of prep. Unlike the law which is unfair.
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Old 26-01-2012, 19:46   #23
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Re: Good News for the Barnacles Out West - Copper Paint Going Away

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Just add salt water and wa la! What do you think that pink stuff is on my old strut? Some use to use copper sheeting on the bottoms.


Copper doesn't actually "rust" on exposure like that, at least not on a scale you could make any use of. It has to be heated or chemically treated to make cu2o. Raw copper is much more inert and hence much less effective as an AF than cu2o. Those old copper bottoms had to be cleaned quite often. You'd be much better off with a modern alternative for much less than a copper sheet bottom.
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Old 26-01-2012, 19:50   #24
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Re: good news for the barnacles out west, copper paint going away

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Can you paint over the copper paint with the new paint? If not, then it is fair to show the cost of prep. Unlike the law which is unfair.
Read the links I posted. Yes you can paint over most copper based AF without a problem. They make both ablative and hard options. And some of them cost less than $50 a gallon, which is sure a lot less than $200 or more for good cu. Pays for most of the more regular dive schedule you will need.
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Old 26-01-2012, 20:43   #25
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Re: Good News for the Barnacles Out West - Copper Paint Going Away

Well, since copper is going away I think it's time to dredge this up again.

Ultrasonic Anti-Fouling

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Old 27-01-2012, 08:13   #26
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Re: Good News for the Barnacles Out West - Copper Paint Going Away

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Anyone just mixing it in? You can buy copper powder pretty cheap (relatively speaking) and just mix it into the paint. It's not like the paint wizards are doing anything more magical than that, I think.
Modern anti fouling paints are a complex matrix of solvents, binders and biocides, formulated to work over time that the manufacturers have spent millions of dollars and many years perfecting. Do you really believe that making an effective anti fouling is as simple as mixing some copper powder into paint?
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Old 27-01-2012, 08:40   #27
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Re: Good News for the Barnacles Out West - Copper Paint Going Away

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Well, since copper is going away I think it's time to dredge this up again.

Ultrasonic Anti-Fouling


A unit was posted for sale today in the classifieds if anyone is interested.
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Old 27-01-2012, 10:57   #28
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Re: Good News for the Barnacles Out West - Copper Paint Going Away

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Modern anti fouling paints are a complex matrix of solvents, binders and biocides, formulated to work over time that the manufacturers have spent millions of dollars and many years perfecting. Do you really believe that making an effective anti fouling is as simple as mixing some copper powder into paint?
Um, yeah?

You can buy anti-fungal paint additives at Home Depot that are mix-ins per gallon. I'm sure there's a lot of advanced chemistry involved in much of the work but additives are pretty standard fair for paint.

And it's not like the bottom of the boat will explode. I mean hell I could just try some on the bottom of my little 8' dinghy and see what happens.
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Old 27-01-2012, 11:20   #29
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Re: Good News for the Barnacles Out West - Copper Paint Going Away

Last I checked, we weren't trying to keep fungus from growing on our boat bottoms.

Iif making your own anti fouling paint (or improving an existing one) were simple and easy, everyone would do it. But hey, it's your dime. Knock yourself out.
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Old 27-01-2012, 11:50   #30
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Re: good news for the barnacles out west, copper paint going away

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A stuck barnacle is a happy barnacle.
Can we train the snail darters to eat them?
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