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View Poll Results: What type of epoxy to use for suction filling a void in the Skeg.
CPES Penetrating epoxy (i.e Smith's) 0 0%
Standard low-viscosity epoxy 2 100.00%
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Old 04-03-2010, 14:58   #76
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This is not osmosis. This is an internal delamination void in the skeg which we will dry with nitrogen at 3 psi once we're finished pumping water and bacteria thru it to clean out the motor oil. I want the lamination separated that way I get a good drying effect and good penetration from the epoxy. But that was an old discussion.....
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Old 04-03-2010, 15:00   #77
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You have 3/4" separation, I guess that means the hull has spread outward and the boat got shorter. What is the plan? To cable and turnbuckle it at the gunnell or to drill it and do same at the point of separation? or maybe another way?

Well, at this point we know the tab separation was caused by an impact which dimpled the hull requiring that plug you see a few messages up (dark streak in img 2 is bulkhead seen thru the glass). We're going to try and adjust the stands to see if the BH/hull joint will flex back into position. Then we'll see about cutting out the rot and replacing the wood or CPES it then re-tab it in place. Still debating that. My opinion is remove the whole starboard BH segment and replace it. Because there is only what looks to be one layer of cloth, this is going to require some new roving to strengthen the area under the bulkhead. The exterior will get a layered patch and fair.
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Old 04-03-2010, 15:22   #78
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hmpfff.... grind that tabbing out and use the bulkhead as a pattern for a new one. Heat, epoxy-coat, wet-sand, epoxy-coat and wet-sand the new marine ply bulkhead before installing it. Use a cargo-strap with tensioner and blocks between hull and strap to bring them together into shape again (like they do during metal hull construction). Use epoxy with cloth-roving-cloth for new tabbing (no mat because it doesn't wet-out very well with epoxy) and let cure for 48 hours before releasing tension on strap. Stronger and better than new.

cheers,
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Old 04-03-2010, 16:30   #79
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Agreed, that's what I would like to do. Thanks for the detail. Now if I can just convince my partner. Pulling out the entire bulkhead won't be an option for such a small amount of rot. By what method do we attach the 2 halves of the BH back together? Would the best cut be within the hanging locker itself or take fully half out at the door to the v-berth. We have a max of 2" of rot around the hull contact zone (max are toward the bottom) and all within the locker, except a small spot in the corner above the locker (pix). I should have disclaimed the pix by saying the joint all looks wet but not rotted. We had rain get under the taped-over deck hardware holes.
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Old 04-03-2010, 17:31   #80
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I would replace the whole bulkhead anyway. This is a structural member... don't stick something on to replace rotten parts.

I would make it 1-part.... but if that is too big or you can't move it in or out, you will have to make a 12:1 scarf joint. It doesn't matter where it ends up because it'll be as strong as the wood. Trouble is putting the scarf joint together inside the boat.

It doesn't really matter if you have 2" rot or 1/4" or 2'... replace the bulkhead.

But if you're really not gonna do that....
Start with the strap and blocks and tensioning to get the hull to join up with the old bulkhead. Now, measure the largest distance between hull and good wood (to bridge the rot). Find something that size, piece of scrap or pack of cigarettes, whatever. Using pencil and that spacer, draw the shape of the hull on the bulkhead 2.5" or what other distance you decided in from the hull. Take that rotozip tool and some spare bits and cut it. You now have room between hull and bulkhead. Put the Fein Multimaster with sanding attachment in there with 60 or 80 grit. Now, that space must be filled again. Cut 1.5" wide strips of 1/8" - 3/16" 3-ply (marine grade) and laminate them with epoxy in place there. Do tabbing as before.

cheers,
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Old 04-03-2010, 17:50   #81
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Is the hull bulging out on the outside? I find that to be very odd if it is. That one bulkhead shouldn't "hold" the hull in form. There is the whole vee berth structure tabbed to the hull, the main shroud chainplate knee, the aft bulkhead for the locker, the hull to deck joint. I can't believe that you would have a localized bulge of 3/4" that needs to be somehow forced back into shape, unless there is some kind of failure of the hull layup in that whole area.
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Old 08-03-2010, 07:53   #82
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Nick:
Was thinking of taking the door trim off and just cutting straight up the edge of the door on the starboard side. The hanging locker will have to come out, but that beats ripping out the entire head and v-berth. A new bulkhead would not go in in one piece anyway (not without cutting a hole in the deck). The scarf will be easy enough.

Quote:
Is the hull bulging out on the outside?
David:
Well..
The BH was displaced a by an external impact that broke the glass inward. The "plug" was hidden under the bottom paint. We figure the separation is due to the broke tabbing and placement of the stands. We're going to adjust the stands first to see if that'll "suck it up". Look at the back messages. There's a description of this mess. Before pic (below also) shows the "PLUG" they put in to fill the depression. The gelcoat is still on under the "plug".
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Old 08-03-2010, 08:18   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishman_Tx View Post
Was thinking of taking the door trim off and just cutting straight up the edge of the door on the starboard side. The hanging locker will have to come out, but that beats ripping out the entire head and v-berth. A new bulkhead would not go in in one piece anyway (not without cutting a hole in the deck). The scarf will be easy enough.
I guess there's too much rot to bridge it with the system I described earlier?

In that case, you should start with removing the tabbing further to check for more rot underneath it. Just keep on going until you find good wood.

When you have defined the area that needs to be replaced, you need to bring the hull into shape, and assure it stays that way, before cutting the piece out. Shape the bevel for the joint onto the bulkhead first and make sure to add the width of it to the new piece you cut using the old piece as a template. Make it 1 or even two inches bigger. Fit it in place, overlapping the joint but making sure the joint line is parallel You do that by drawing pencil lines and checking it is parallel. Now you can measure the exact overlap (how much too big it is) and transfer the exact hull shape (which will be different from the shape of the old piece) onto the new piece using pencil and a piece of scrap cut for the exact size you measured... plus 1/8" or so. After cutting that off it should be a perfect fit. Make sure that it doesn't touch the hull when you epoxy the scarf... it's too big if it does and this will prevent you from doing the scarf accurately. Only support it underneath plus some struts to keep it up. Drive stainless screws through the joint to fix it while curing. I would counter-sink them and later cut/grind the pointy ends off where they penetrate the wood because removing them will be hell. Coat the whole lot with epoxy again before doing the tabbing. I would use a caulking tube with thickened epoxy (high density filler) to seal the bulkhead to hull joint before tabbing it.

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 08-03-2010, 09:16   #84
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Pardon the crudeness of the drawing. Here's the intended cut in red. The scarf would go to the overhead section. One rot spot is above the locker caused from leaking portlight (pic2). All the rest is ok (overhead and portside). Rot spots at arrows.
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Old 08-03-2010, 10:48   #85
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What do you think caused the rot at the bottom outboard edge of the bulkhead? Also I am not sure you can determine the cause of the rot at the top with the liner in place. Also, how do you plan to remove the liner in the locker to tab the bulkhead to the underside of the deck?
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Old 08-03-2010, 12:13   #86
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Ah, okay. That is an easy scarf indeed but you will need to rebuild the door frame. It might be less work (or better looking end result) is the scarf all the way down just besides the door opening. It doesn't matter for strength or anything so it's basically the choice between scarfing or finishing the door frame ;-)

Did you check the bulkhead under the floor? There might be a second scarf there....

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Old 08-03-2010, 13:46   #87
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David: Yes, the portlight is part of it, we're replacing them, you see. The entire bow and side decks to the shrouds are getting skinned and recored as well due to wet balsa from leaking hardware and that's the other part....

Nick: Yessir, we'll be scarfing the overhead section; the aft facing side (old piece)will get the scarf while the new piece gets the scarf facing forward. We pulled the door trim down last week. All the BH finish is that "oak" formica from the '70s. It's all getting redone with new formica and paint anyway. Homey wants a Herreshoff so were goin' white!
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Old 24-03-2014, 23:00   #88
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Re: God, What a Mess!

any chance them oil eating microbes could escape the bilge and find their way into the diesel tanks? That would be bad! if some of the spray got on the engine, would they run riot and cover the engine with scum? or worse yet, get into the engine oil? THAT would be badder!
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Old 28-04-2016, 16:12   #89
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Re: God, What a Mess!

Well, folks it's been a while, but "Our Baby" is no more. She's a pile of shredded fiberglass and wood in a dumpster. Too much damage, too much money, and too little time. We are currently looking at a 79 Watkins 37 in beautiful condition.
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Old 28-04-2016, 16:16   #90
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Re: God, What a Mess!

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Originally Posted by Fishman_Tx View Post
Well, folks it's been a while, but "Our Baby" is no more. She's a pile of shredded fiberglass and wood in a dumpster. Too much damage, too much money, and too little time. We are currently looking at a 79 Watkins 37 in beautiful condition.
Many of us have learned that lesson, some better some worse.
Onward! Everything is easy in retrospect.... but at the time not so easy. One thing for sure, even a boat with no repairs needed when you buy it is a lot of work. Work some overtime and buy the best you can find!
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