Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

View Poll Results: What type of epoxy to use for suction filling a void in the Skeg.
CPES Penetrating epoxy (i.e Smith's) 0 0%
Standard low-viscosity epoxy 2 100.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 2. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 5 votes, 4.20 average. Display Modes
Old 11-11-2009, 10:09   #61
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: research vessel
Posts: 10,152
A partial vacuum will accelerate evaporation.
__________________

__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2009, 10:18   #62
Registered User
 
Fishman_Tx's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beeville, Tx.
Boat: 1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch "Lady Catherine II", 1973 Bristol 34 - "Our Baby"(RIP), Catalina 22
Posts: 876
Images: 12
Of course if enough pressure is added carefully, we might succeed in getting a better separation for injection. Break it to fix it? I could also put it in under pressure using a small plexi tube (vessel) for the epoxy and apply back pressure til almost empty (no air in the mix). Same as injection but with gas pressure instead of mechanical. Hmm..

Re: "2 tubes at a time"
The standard .5 oz tubes correct?
__________________

__________________
Fish
"Behind every great man there is a woman, rolling her eyes."
But not for long! Now she's gone!
and peace and tranquility reign forever!
1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch
Fishman_Tx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2009, 11:14   #63
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
No no, all that isn't needed. When that would be needed, I would have advised to cut the whole rudder up for repairs. You say it passed the hammer test, so we're dealing with minor repair.

If the drilled holes only take very little epoxy, drill much more of them all over the area, like a grid of 5/16" holes 3/4" apart. Tape every one with just a touch of the top open. Heat and inject.

Don't do the vacuum thing unless you have the real equipment for it. Just use the heatgun to get it really warm before injecting and the cooling air under the injected resin will create the vacuum for you. It will suck the epoxy in every little crack and void.

cheers,
Nick.
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2009, 13:42   #64
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Fort Pierce, FL. Texas Roots
Boat: 82 Present, 13 ft dinghy
Posts: 492
Nick, I am with you on the heat and the holes. Sucking epoxy in with a vac is just a brain storm, I have never tried it, ought to work though, just like vacumm bagging on initial construction. The nitrogen idea is used after the wet dry has sucked overnight and all the big water and mosture is out, then blow a tank of nitrogen through the problem area at about 3lb psi and it will be as dry as a bone. Just Hook it up and let it blow through until you have emptied the drum, will be dryer than dry.
__________________
Mule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2009, 14:25   #65
Registered User
 
Fishman_Tx's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beeville, Tx.
Boat: 1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch "Lady Catherine II", 1973 Bristol 34 - "Our Baby"(RIP), Catalina 22
Posts: 876
Images: 12
Yep! Dry it up quick.
Re: Vacuuming
The leak is coming from the sump under the shaft stuffing box and is running down the entire skeg. Don't you think we should start there and vacuum downwards? I still need to drill it out tho and flush it thoroughly, top to bottom. I don't think the epoxy is going to want to bind well with motor oil coating the void. This is why this is a major issue on our minds.
__________________
Fish
"Behind every great man there is a woman, rolling her eyes."
But not for long! Now she's gone!
and peace and tranquility reign forever!
1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch
Fishman_Tx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2010, 15:34   #66
Registered User
 
Fishman_Tx's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beeville, Tx.
Boat: 1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch "Lady Catherine II", 1973 Bristol 34 - "Our Baby"(RIP), Catalina 22
Posts: 876
Images: 12
Update:
Well, a few weeks ago, we got some of the oil-eating bacteria and applied throughout the hull and bilge. We made sure to spray the sump at the stuffing box and, sure enough, the material came out the hole in the skeg, post-haste. This should take out a lot of the contamination in the skeg voids and leave nothing but water and CO2 behind. We'll probably re-treat again before drying out and sucking in thinned epoxy. BTW, this stuff got rid of about 80% of the musty, diesel-y, oily smell in the cabin. Still has some musty odor but a lot of that'll go with the wet wood in the v-berth bulkhead and the new fabrics and cushions.

We got all the teak ceiling out of the salon and v-berth and found a few leaks in the hull deck joint and stanchion bases on the starboard side. Two knees will need cut out and replaced (or CPES'd). The v-berth bulkhead/hull contact zone (starboard) is completely shot for about 2" deep from the point of contact. This is the same bulkhead that was displaced a bit and was just under the epoxy-silica "plug" (starboard bow)which has only 1 layer of cloth/glass left between the inside and out.

About 70% of the deck hardware has been removed at this point, lacking only the winches and the toerail, cleats,and liferail gates aft around the cockpit. The new toerail will probably be mahogany (more affordable than teak) from Exotic Lumber Inc. in Annapolis. The rudder post is still fighting us and doesn't want to come out. The post "split framing" under the cockpit appears to have been epoxied over and will probably have to be cut out and rebuilt.

Back to the grind this weekend!

Fish

PS: the plug was about 3/4 an inch thick(1st pic) and on the 2nd pic you can see the bulkhead thru the glass
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Image005.jpg
Views:	131
Size:	39.6 KB
ID:	13552   Click image for larger version

Name:	Image007.jpg
Views:	123
Size:	43.4 KB
ID:	13553  

__________________
Fish
"Behind every great man there is a woman, rolling her eyes."
But not for long! Now she's gone!
and peace and tranquility reign forever!
1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch
Fishman_Tx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2010, 15:39   #67
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,391
Hi Fish,

Where did you get the oil eating bacteria? PO of my boat managed to "spill" all the oil from a change into the bilge and I could use it.

Thanks
Skip
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2010, 16:53   #68
Registered User
 
Fishman_Tx's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beeville, Tx.
Boat: 1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch "Lady Catherine II", 1973 Bristol 34 - "Our Baby"(RIP), Catalina 22
Posts: 876
Images: 12
There are several places on the web. It ain't cheap, that's for sure. I'll get the specifics on what we used and post 'em as soon as my partner gets in town tonight.
For starters:
Clean Water Solutions, Inc. - Product Line
Clean Water Solutions Microbial Powder - 28 oz
Home : Best Oil Stain Remover, Driveway Cleaner, Remove Concrete Stain, Bilge Cleaner, Oil Spill Cleanup – Oil Gone Easy

I noticed some of these "attract" the "naturally occuring microbes". We bought the actual "bugs". They were temperature sensitive and had to be applied under certain conditions. That's why we're doing it again once it warms up.
BTW, you can degrease the engine with this stuff, supposedly. We sprayed ours, but we need a sand blaster for that. LOL
__________________
Fish
"Behind every great man there is a woman, rolling her eyes."
But not for long! Now she's gone!
and peace and tranquility reign forever!
1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch
Fishman_Tx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 08:58   #69
Registered User
 
Fishman_Tx's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beeville, Tx.
Boat: 1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch "Lady Catherine II", 1973 Bristol 34 - "Our Baby"(RIP), Catalina 22
Posts: 876
Images: 12
Here ya go Skip.
Oil Eating Microbes for Safe Oil Spill Cleaning and Bioremediation
Sorry it took so long. The smell of the boat is MUCH improved after using this stuff. Not just the deisel smell, but no more "Bilge Funk".
__________________
Fish
"Behind every great man there is a woman, rolling her eyes."
But not for long! Now she's gone!
and peace and tranquility reign forever!
1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch
Fishman_Tx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2010, 08:09   #70
Registered User
 
Fishman_Tx's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beeville, Tx.
Boat: 1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch "Lady Catherine II", 1973 Bristol 34 - "Our Baby"(RIP), Catalina 22
Posts: 876
Images: 12
Damaged bulkhead

Here's a few of the damaged v-berth bulkhead in the head hanging locker. Separation is about 3/4 to an inch. Broken tabbing has been peeled back.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Bulkhead Damage VB ST 1.jpg
Views:	132
Size:	320.1 KB
ID:	13664   Click image for larger version

Name:	Bulkhead Damage VB ST 2.jpg
Views:	112
Size:	320.0 KB
ID:	13665  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Bulkhead Damage VB ST 3.jpg
Views:	118
Size:	320.9 KB
ID:	13666   Click image for larger version

Name:	Bulkhead Damage VB ST 4.jpg
Views:	111
Size:	319.1 KB
ID:	13667  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Head Hanging Locker Tabbing.jpg
Views:	116
Size:	318.7 KB
ID:	13668  
__________________
Fish
"Behind every great man there is a woman, rolling her eyes."
But not for long! Now she's gone!
and peace and tranquility reign forever!
1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch
Fishman_Tx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2010, 10:28   #71
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Fort Pierce, FL. Texas Roots
Boat: 82 Present, 13 ft dinghy
Posts: 492
You have 3/4" separation, I guess that means the hull has spread outward and the boat got shorter. What is the plan? To cable and turnbuckle it at the gunnell or to drill it and do same at the point of separation? or maybe another way?
__________________
'Da Mule
Mule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2010, 10:42   #72
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,313
I wouldn't think it's done that unless the hull has come free of the deck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mule View Post
You have 3/4" separation, I guess that means the hull has spread outward and the boat got shorter. What is the plan? To cable and turnbuckle it at the gunnell or to drill it and do same at the point of separation? or maybe another way?
__________________
Joli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2010, 10:47   #73
Registered User
 
Fishman_Tx's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beeville, Tx.
Boat: 1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch "Lady Catherine II", 1973 Bristol 34 - "Our Baby"(RIP), Catalina 22
Posts: 876
Images: 12
Well, at this point we know the tab separation was caused by an impact which dimpled the hull requiring that plug you see a few messages up (dark streak in img 2 is bulkhead seen thru the glass). We're going to try and adjust the stands to see if the BH/hull joint will flex back into position. Then we'll see about cutting out the rot and replacing the wood or CPES it then re-tab it in place. Still debating that. My opinion is remove the whole starboard segment and replace it. Because there is only what looks to be one layer of cloth, this is going to require some new roving to strengthen the area under the bulkhead. The exterior will get a layered patch and fair.
__________________
Fish
"Behind every great man there is a woman, rolling her eyes."
But not for long! Now she's gone!
and peace and tranquility reign forever!
1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch
Fishman_Tx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2010, 12:51   #74
Registered User
 
sailvayu's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Fort Myers FL
Boat: Irwin 40
Posts: 878
Compressed air is a really bad idea, great way to blow apart the laminates though. I would only use vacuum to pull the water out. you have drill holes apply mild heat with say heat lamps and let the moisture work its way out thru evaporation. Even a small amount of air pressure can do some real damage.

oops I did not see how long this thread was my mistake lol just ignore this post lol


Good luck
__________________
Capt. Wayne Canning, AMS
www.projectboat.info
http://sailvayu.com/
sailvayu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2010, 14:21   #75
Registered User
 
sigmasailor's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Netherlands, Holland
Boat: Sold Sigma 33 OOD some time ago, will be chartering in Turkey really soon
Posts: 358
I had osmoses on my boat and it was treated with this: Hotvac Boat Hull Drying, Osmosis Treatment, Osmocure.
Pretty good results; do not know if they operate in the USA. I didn't read all the posts but this is the suggested combination of heat and vacuum in one package.

Yes...it is still there http://www.seabell.nl/default.asp?si...oud&tab=hotvac, my boat before..... at one of the better looking spots.
__________________

__________________
Sailors do it with the wind...
sigmasailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GOD HELP ME, I'm in love with a CATAMARAN!!! Christian Van H Multihull Sailboats 64 09-03-2009 15:30
Marco Island Mess JusDreaming Cruising News & Events 0 16-10-2007 18:48
How bad did I mess-up??? rleslie Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 18 06-05-2006 16:45
Good god... I'm losing it. Battery switches?? ssullivan Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 37 15-03-2006 15:22
My God--looka that !!! 29cascadefixer General Sailing Forum 5 04-06-2003 05:57



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:09.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.