Genoa won't unfurl on Facnor LS200 Furler?

[krafthaus]

I have a Facnor LS200 genoa furler on my Lagoon 420. On the dock I can easily unfurl the genoa by hand and it furls back up again very smooth. There appears to be nothing wrong with the furler.

But when I am out and there seems to be any wind pressure on the head sail, and maybe it is related to when I have the main sail up, the genoa will come out a couple of turns and then it is stuck. It won't unfurl more if I pull on it harder with the jib sheet or even just let the wind try to blow it out.

When pulling on it with the jib sheet if I pull harder, it seems to be stuck more. I can pull on the sheet and it tries to unfurl, and the furler is smooth turning back & forth, but it can't get to the next turn and seems hung up on the wraps.

Yesterday I tried loosening the genoa halyard a little to see if that helped but it would still not unfurl.

I can use some advice here. What am I missing??

[Blue Stocking]

Have you checked for a halyard wrap at the masthead? The swivel will often rotate freely when not under load, but not so when loaded up.

[krafthaus]

Originally Posted by Blue Stocking

Have you checked for a halyard wrap at the masthead? The swivel will often rotate freely when not under load, but not so when loaded up.

Not sure what you mean by halyard wrap at the masthead. But the slider used to hoist the genoa is in place held up by the genoa halyard. Looks the same as all the other boats in the marina. And the aluminum tube that has the genoa wrapped onto it turns freely in the swivel at the top when I unfurl and refurl the genoa at the dock.

In fact, it seems to turn freely back & forth when we're out on the water also, but it is hung up on a wrap of the genny and won't unfurl like it should. I think the wind should just about blow it out on its own as I tighten the jib sheet if it was working properly.

[Blue Stocking]

Is the sheet block positioned such that tension on the foot and the leech is equal ? If not, either swivel may be excessively loaded. A halyard wrap can take place when the 'halyard lead-to-foil distance' reduces as it approaches the masthead fitting.

[krafthaus]

Originally Posted by Blue Stocking

Is the sheet block positioned such that tension on the foot and the leech is equal ? If not, either swivel may be excessively loaded. A halyard wrap can take place when the 'halyard lead-to-foil distance' reduces as it approaches the masthead fitting.

I found a good article explaining halyard wrap and furling system installation and setup. It is for Harken, but I imagine Facnor would be the same.

There is no halyard wrap on my furling system and the halyard lead onto the swivel is approx 8-10 degrees as shown, so the swivel setup at the top of the foil looks to be good.

The sheet block is in a position so it is pulling according to the trimline marked on the genoa by Doyle who made the sail. Having said that, I've pulled on the genoa from all different angles to get it to unfurl when there is wind on the main/genoa without being able to get the genoa unfurled.

Any more ideas Blue Stocking or others that might have experienced this problem??

[Jim Cate]

I had a smaller Facnor furler on my Solent stays'l a few years ago. It was IIRC a LS130 model. The upper swivel that came with it failed with symptoms somewhat similar to yours. Upon close inspection, the pressed steel bearing races were badly distorted. Facnor's response was to tell me that they had re-designed that swivel, and would be generous enough to sell me one at retail. How nice. But I was sorta trapped, so I bought it, and the newer one worked until, for other reasons, I replaced the whole shebang.

So, I'd advise that you drop the sail and have a good look at that swivel. It might well be a similar design as the one that failed me.

Jim

[hamburking]

I had something similar happen on my furler, although it was a smaller monohull. There were 3 set screws on the furler drum. They had all either come loose, or were already gone. I replaced all 3 screws, and it worked perfect for several more years. I think they held the drum UP somehow.

[SaltyMetals]

Krafthaus,

If you have a copy of Nigel Calder's excellent book "Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual" halyard wrap and how to avoid it is very well explained. I hv Third Edition 2005, reprinted 2011 and on my version the relevant chapter is to be found at p772.
Good luck!
Andrew

[krafthaus]

OK thanks all, I'll do some checking on these suggestions.

[hoppy]

When it sticks in the wind have you tried rounding up and letting the genoa flap and then try pulling out more? What about furling in the sail, does it stick when there is pressure on the sail?

Do what Jim suggests to start with. If you can't find a problem with the swivel then maybe there could be a problem with the bearing or something around the drum.

I had a Facnor unit which started to get stiff. Ended up removing the forestay and found that a screw in the unit was rubbing against the forestay wearing it away.

[krafthaus]

Thanks hoppy. Yes, I've tried to get the genoa out when the sail is flapping and still won't unfurl.

It's just very strange because when it's stuck I can turn the foil both directions by hand about a half turn total, but it's like winding up a spring when I want it to unfurl and it just won't go.

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by krafthaus

Thanks hoppy. Yes, I've tried to get the genoa out when the sail is flapping and still won't unfurl.

It's just very strange because when it's stuck I can turn the foil both directions by hand about a half turn total, but it's like winding up a spring when I want it to unfurl and it just won't go.

That kind of suggest to me that the problem could be up top.

I might be worth while going up the mast before you drop the sail to see how the halyard deflector is looking.

I took the lazy option with a quadcopter

[nigel1]

Have you tried to adjust the halyard tension?

If the halyard is tension is too much, it will put a lot of pressure on the bearings and can cause it to bind up.

Make a mark on the halyard at the clutch in it's present position, then slack the halyard an inch and try furling/unfurling.

As other have said, take a good look at the upper swivel. If you can unfurl the sail at the dock, then unfurl and drop and remove the genoa. Take a couple of meters of rope and make this rope fast between the drum and the upper swivel. Tension the halyard, and then operate the furler. That way you can have a good look at how the upper swivel works.

If the upper swivel is binding, it usually only needs some hot water poured over it to flush out the dirt and salt.

[SaltyMetals]

I hv another suggestion for you (hoping that you hv now read what Nigel Calder has to say about this problem). Put a strop on the tack of the genoa so that it rides up higher on the foil, hopefully to the top (but not quite to the top since you need a little free in order to be able to add tension to the luff of the genoa. Having added a strop it will reduce the tendency for a halyard wrap bec the pic you show is the perfect example of what you should not have. There appears to be a small disc that attempts to prevent a wrap but i am not sure this is sufficient.
Try and take a look with some binocs as to what is happening aloft when you get the jam.

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by SaltyMetals

I hv another suggestion for you (hoping that you hv now read what Nigel Calder has to say about this problem). Put a strop on the tack of the genoa so that it rides up higher on the foil, hopefully to the top (but not quite to the top since you need a little free in order to be able to add tension to the luff of the genoa. Having added a strop it will reduce the tendency for a halyard wrap bec the pic you show is the perfect example of what you should not have. There appears to be a small disc that attempts to prevent a wrap but i am not sure this is sufficient.
Try and take a look with some binocs as to what is happening aloft when you get the jam.

The disc is how facnor designed the system and it is perfectly sufficient if the halyard is tensioned as it should be. I did discover however that an old halyard has so much friction on the disc that you cannot properly tension the luff.

Of course if the disk is broken then anything's possible



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