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Old 09-11-2019, 21:44   #1
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Galley refit on 27' sailboat?

I have a 1967 Santana 27, it's filthy, outdated, and abused.

My wife came and got on the boat for the first time today, and she was not impressed. She immediately started suggesting Ikea, and found something called kitchoo who makes these ultra-compact kitchens. Honestly they look amazing, for an RV or a tiny home. But not a boat.

So, are there any off-the-shelf kitchenettes for smaller boats like mine?

Should I stick to the plan and find a 1 burner propane for the existing hole, a new sink, and a full refinish on the existing ugly stuff?

What are my options?
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Old 09-11-2019, 22:10   #2
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re: Galley refit on 27' sailboat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgali View Post
I have a 1967 Santana 27, it's filthy, outdated, and abused.

My wife came and got on the boat for the first time today, and she was not impressed. She immediately started suggesting Ikea, and found something called kitchoo who makes these ultra-compact kitchens. Honestly they look amazing, for an RV or a tiny home. But not a boat.

So, are there any off-the-shelf kitchenettes for smaller boats like mine?

Should I stick to the plan and find a 1 burner propane for the existing hole, a new sink, and a full refinish on the existing ugly stuff?

What are my options?
Lots of affordable 1-2 Bruner flush mount butane or alcohol ranges available. You’d have to luck out immensely to find a cabinet that will work, you’ll be building a custom one for sure or modifying an existing one to the point you might as well build one from scratch. Not hard to do and a relatively cheap modification. Drop an off the shelf bar sink in and a hand pump and you can keep the coat to under $400 all finished. You may even be able to simply upgrade the existing casework and drop in new appliances and a good cleaning. Get your wife involved and you’ll be set.
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Old 10-11-2019, 03:52   #3
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re: Galley refit on 27' sailboat?

Ikea and the like tend to work with mdf and mdf will often swell in a moist or wet environment. On a boat, you will want a good plywood.
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Old 10-11-2019, 05:08   #4
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re: Galley refit on 27' sailboat?

Without seeing the boat it is tough to say. Is the cabinet frame sound? Could it be refaced or refinished? Are you going to leave the interior dark wood or lighten it up?

Off the top of my head, assuming base cabinet is OK: pick out a countertop and backsplash and towel holder and storage racks for the walls. Under-hang old sink with a decent reveal and cut a bamboo cutting board to fill it in when not using it. Nice new stove from REI, add 12V LED task lighting, make sure any AC electrical is safe and plumbing is correct.

I have similar issues on my boat except cabinets were removed so I am starting over. I will 'upcycle' the sink and am planning on a vintage Origo stove.
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Old 10-11-2019, 10:16   #5
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re: Galley refit on 27' sailboat?

Quote: "What are my options? "

Short answer: Not many!

Longer answer: It depends on whether your wife is going to come sailing with you, and it depends on what sort of sailing you are going to do. Given that you are in Seattle, and given that the boat is a Santana 27, you are really confined to Puget sound and, at a stretch, the Gulf Islands of BC. Given the boat's limited speed and the distances involved you are unlikely to go beyond those waters.

That means that all the cooking you need to do, is to make the odd cup of coffee or CupaSoup, and that, when it has been tidied up, the existing galley is perfectly adequate.

We sail a 30 footer with essentially the same galley facilities as those that are "native" to the S27. We eat very well, but that is because we have constructed a ten-day meal plan that is ADAPTED to the boat' galley's capacities. For one thing, NO menu item requires the use of ingredients that have to be refrigerated, let alone kept in a freezer! So if your wife is a good cook, creating such a meal plan would IMO be a sine qua non for her!

You will NEVER find a "drop-in" galley at Ikea's nor will a Kitchoo EVER fit. You need to deal with the fact that MOST women do not think efficiently, or at all, "three dimensionally". Therefore it is UNLIKELY (though not impossible) that your wife will INTUIT just why a Kitchoo won't fit in a boat. But she wouldn't have made the suggestion if it had already been obvious to her.

Now, in the Salish Sea the distances twixt harbour towns and marinas are short enuff that you can comfortably go from one to another in a day's sailing. In everyone of them you can buy a cooked meal and in a great many you can dine luxuriously, to the highest international standards, within a half hour's walk from where you tie up. And presumably you cruise not for the sake of being cooped up in a tiny space for many days on end, but because you like the exhilaration of being on the water for PART of the day, and the delights of exploring out of the way places during the other part. You can buy many a meal for the cost of refurbishing a boat, particularly if in thinking about refurbishing you have let the glossy mags convince you that you need refrigeration and a water maker to make cruising possible at all.

'Tain't so! MyBeloved had never set foot in ANY kinda boat till she was of retirement age, and she is very much a product of the Canadian ethos that tends to be a faithful reflection of the American one, i.e. she had never known a life without refrigerators, washing machines, hot water on tap, half-hour showers, and Lord knows what ModCons. Those things were IHO essential for a civilized life. I am in the fortunate position that I hail from a place and a time when such things were unknown except among the very rich, and so it fell to me to teach her the "how-to"s of simple living. Now she enjoys the fun of learning how to put the ModCon's behind her. Always allowing, of course, that we do that only for a few weeks at a time before we return to our shoreside condo :-)

So my recommendation to you is to put thoughts of "improving" a Santana 27 behind you. Clean it up, sail it as it is, and find your joy in learning how to live a much simpler life than you do ashore for the relatively few days (or weeks) you'll be spending afloat.

All the best

TrentePieds
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Old 10-11-2019, 13:32   #6
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re: Galley refit on 27' sailboat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgali View Post
I have a 1967 Santana 27, it's filthy, outdated, and abused...
Wow, it sounds really great!

Seriously though:

I can't speak about the rest of the galley, but I emphatically recommend an Origo (Dometic) 2000 flush mount, one burner stove. Quite likely it will fit nicely in the existing hole from your old stove.
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Old 10-11-2019, 14:43   #7
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re: Galley refit on 27' sailboat?

Pictures and how you plan to use the boat would help.
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Old 10-11-2019, 15:25   #8
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re: Galley refit on 27' sailboat?

Hi I understand your dilemma but you do want to enjoy the time on the boat and that may mean you want a nice dinner at sunset, breakfast in the cool of the morning with a nice hot cup of coffee. The easy part is the propane stove or cooktop running on the small propane tanks you buy at wall-mart or where ever. I have a two burner stove and cook many meals on it and or you can also add a barbecue that is rail mounted. Now comes that hard part, Refrigeration. You can build in or buy a portable fridge. Engel makes a great portable any size you want can use to freeze for refrigerate. I took the hard road and built one in. If you use a nice piece of veneer you can template the top of your counters and do formica for corean. Webasco also makes a great drop in. If you ant a great fridge you can also make one. When my built in Engel died I bought a cooler, yes a cooler by Igloo. Built that in and then refrigerated the cooler. Seems to work great. I insulated around the cooler to make it hold the cold even better as fridge. I had to find a specific size as I want to use the current counter top which had an opening for the old engel.
I enjoy cold drinks, low power use and I can stay out longer without having to go for ice.
Enjoy your new hobby
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Old 10-11-2019, 23:55   #9
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re: Galley refit on 27' sailboat?

My first boat was also a 27 footer with no galley to speak of. Made use of ss camping 2 burner propane stove and an Igloo ice box. Used to freeze 1gal jugs of spring water, those would keep food cold up to 4 days, provided I kept the beer in a separate chest. Also one of those styrofoam boxes Omaha Steaks are sent in make excellent freezers with dry ice. Just don't open them too often.

Save your $$ for updated sails, ground tackle, electronics, etc and use the above alternatives to remodeling aches and pains.
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Old 11-11-2019, 00:55   #10
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re: Galley refit on 27' sailboat?

Ok, my use cases:

At first, some day sailing with the wife. As time progresses, I plan to add some overnights and long weekends onboard.

I'm going to be adding solar panels, about 250 watts. I'm going to install 2 additional deep cycle marine batteries that I already have. I plan to use a small 20l fridge that operates on 12v and can freeze things like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075R1LH8D..._lB5XDbYS3FRKX.

It's equipped with a 40 gallon fresh water tank, 20 gallon waste tank, head w/ shower. It can sleep 6 currently but I'm reducing that to 5. I plan to replace the hatch lid with a tinted clear one for additional natural light and add a couple vents for fresh air. I will probably forgo a heater as both my wife and I like it cold.

The single burner cooktop mentioned above sounds perfect for our limited needs, combined with the occasional instapot meal. I'll add a rail mounted grill, because nothing is gonna stop me from grilling something!

Some new paint throughout and new pulls on the drawers, new upholstery, and I think I'm set.

The cabinetry in the boat is very solid, just heavily used. I'll replace the drawer sliders, and sand and paint everything. I might do a new top surface. I plan to redo the chart table as well and install some cabinetry in the head to hide the waste tank.

As far as usage, like I said earlier, I'll start out mostly exploring the sound, but eventually I want to do some coastal cruising around the peninsula, maybe down the Oregon coast and back on our two week breaks we get frequently. I know that might mean leaving the boat moored somewhere for a few weeks till we get back to it, but that's not a big deal.
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Old 11-11-2019, 01:41   #11
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re: Galley refit on 27' sailboat?

The Alpicool C20 is an interesting choice of fridge / freezer and much cheaper than the Domestic range which don't have good customer support in the UK.

We have also just bought one to complement the existing fridge so we can freeze food or have ice cream and ice etc. Haven't used it yet as I am still building a shelf in place of a locker to fit it into. We will also be upgrading from 150w to 300w of solar to power it along with the other boats electrical requirements.

The instructions only come in Chinese, so I a put an English version in the Cruisers Forum library as a reference:

Cruisers & Sailing Forums - Library - Alpicool C15 or C20 Fridge / Freezer Instructions

Keep the disposable expanded plastic packaging lid which it comes in as extra insulation when your not using for a while but want to keep the fridge / freezer cool. I plan to cover mine with a suitable material to help keep it clean.

Pete
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Old 11-11-2019, 08:19   #12
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re: Galley refit on 27' sailboat?

In my experience very few owner modified boats look or function as well as originally designed and built. Many are never quite finished, or done quite right. And most, I would say, devalue the boat. Few non marine grade materials hold up well onboard.
I think you will find it difficult to beat the original design and engineering that went into your boat's galley.
Also consider that the bulk heads and counter tops may be fiberglassed to the hull and be structuraly important. And don't forget the weight and balance factor.
I would spend my money upgrading the components and refinishing the surfaces. And would think long and hard on any really big changes.
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Old 11-11-2019, 09:04   #13
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Re: Galley refit on 27' sailboat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgali View Post
Ok, my use cases:

At first, some day sailing with the wife. As time progresses, I plan to add some overnights and long weekends onboard.

I'm going to be adding solar panels, about 250 watts. I'm going to install 2 additional deep cycle marine batteries that I already have. I plan to use a small 20l fridge that operates on 12v and can freeze things like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075R1LH8D..._lB5XDbYS3FRKX.

It's equipped with a 40 gallon fresh water tank, 20 gallon waste tank, head w/ shower. It can sleep 6 currently but I'm reducing that to 5. I plan to replace the hatch lid with a tinted clear one for additional natural light and add a couple vents for fresh air. I will probably forgo a heater as both my wife and I like it cold.

The single burner cooktop mentioned above sounds perfect for our limited needs, combined with the occasional instapot meal. I'll add a rail mounted grill, because nothing is gonna stop me from grilling something!

Some new paint throughout and new pulls on the drawers, new upholstery, and I think I'm set.

The cabinetry in the boat is very solid, just heavily used. I'll replace the drawer sliders, and sand and paint everything. I might do a new top surface. I plan to redo the chart table as well and install some cabinetry in the head to hide the waste tank.

As far as usage, like I said earlier, I'll start out mostly exploring the sound, but eventually I want to do some coastal cruising around the peninsula, maybe down the Oregon coast and back on our two week breaks we get frequently. I know that might mean leaving the boat moored somewhere for a few weeks till we get back to it, but that's not a big deal.
Having done most of my sailing on a Santana 30, albeit a slightly newer one ('85), you should find this to be an excellent day and weekend cruiser as it'll be very maneuverable and easy to sail even upwind if you don't mind tacking.

The galley is small and I'm betting you'd only do any serious cooking on the hook. I think you'll find your grill will be the "go to" cooking option with the burner only used for coffee in the mornings. If you do replace the counter top, don't forget the fiddle rails. Wifey's not going to be too happy when her Jambalaya winds up on the floor.

Whatever you do, and I'd suggest just refinishing what you've got, DO NOT use MDF or particle board anywhere on your vessel (especially in your wet head) as it'll fall apart in short order if exposed to moisture which I'm told you get a fair amount of in Seattle. Marine ply would be my choice.

As for heading down the Oregon coast, I'd budget three return days for each one spent going south considering the wind and currents.
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Old 11-11-2019, 09:07   #14
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Re: Galley refit on 27' sailboat?

Wow! Extremely well written!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
Quote: "What are my options? "

Short answer: Not many!

Longer answer: It depends on whether your wife is going to come sailing with you, and it depends on what sort of sailing you are going to do. Given that you are in Seattle, and given that the boat is a Santana 27, you are really confined to Puget sound and, at a stretch, the Gulf Islands of BC. Given the boat's limited speed and the distances involved you are unlikely to go beyond those waters.

That means that all the cooking you need to do, is to make the odd cup of coffee or CupaSoup, and that, when it has been tidied up, the existing galley is perfectly adequate.

We sail a 30 footer with essentially the same galley facilities as those that are "native" to the S27. We eat very well, but that is because we have constructed a ten-day meal plan that is ADAPTED to the boat' galley's capacities. For one thing, NO menu item requires the use of ingredients that have to be refrigerated, let alone kept in a freezer! So if your wife is a good cook, creating such a meal plan would IMO be a sine qua non for her!

You will NEVER find a "drop-in" galley at Ikea's nor will a Kitchoo EVER fit. You need to deal with the fact that MOST women do not think efficiently, or at all, "three dimensionally". Therefore it is UNLIKELY (though not impossible) that your wife will INTUIT just why a Kitchoo won't fit in a boat. But she wouldn't have made the suggestion if it had already been obvious to her.

Now, in the Salish Sea the distances twixt harbour towns and marinas are short enuff that you can comfortably go from one to another in a day's sailing. In everyone of them you can buy a cooked meal and in a great many you can dine luxuriously, to the highest international standards, within a half hour's walk from where you tie up. And presumably you cruise not for the sake of being cooped up in a tiny space for many days on end, but because you like the exhilaration of being on the water for PART of the day, and the delights of exploring out of the way places during the other part. You can buy many a meal for the cost of refurbishing a boat, particularly if in thinking about refurbishing you have let the glossy mags convince you that you need refrigeration and a water maker to make cruising possible at all.

'Tain't so! MyBeloved had never set foot in ANY kinda boat till she was of retirement age, and she is very much a product of the Canadian ethos that tends to be a faithful reflection of the American one, i.e. she had never known a life without refrigerators, washing machines, hot water on tap, half-hour showers, and Lord knows what ModCons. Those things were IHO essential for a civilized life. I am in the fortunate position that I hail from a place and a time when such things were unknown except among the very rich, and so it fell to me to teach her the "how-to"s of simple living. Now she enjoys the fun of learning how to put the ModCon's behind her. Always allowing, of course, that we do that only for a few weeks at a time before we return to our shoreside condo :-)

So my recommendation to you is to put thoughts of "improving" a Santana 27 behind you. Clean it up, sail it as it is, and find your joy in learning how to live a much simpler life than you do ashore for the relatively few days (or weeks) you'll be spending afloat.

All the best

TrentePieds
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Old 11-11-2019, 20:41   #15
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Re: Galley refit on 27' sailboat?

I’ve got an Ericson 27, and have cooked many a fine meal aboard. Our Galley is mostly stock (though refinished since she came off the mold in 1973).

For a stove, we have a dual burner Origo unpressurized alcohol stove. It works well enough that we can easily boil water to make coffee in the morning, stir fry dinner, and do just about anything else we want while at sea. yeah, it’s not the hottest thing in the world, but it’s safe and reliable, and Methyl Hydrate (fuel) is cheap enough at the hardware store.

For our icebox, we converted ours to true refrigeration using a Dometic Coolmatic CS-NC-15. It keeps the food we keep in our ice box nice and cool, and can pull it down to about 1.5C or 2C most of the year, which is perfect for happy hour Gin & Tonics. We also do plan our meals around this (say, buy deep frozen tuna steaks and cook them on day 2 or 3 after they’ve thawed).

Third, our boat has had pressurized water fitted into her, including a 5 gallon hot water tank. Right now, we still have a raw water cooled engine, so we only have hot water for the first 6 hours or so after we leave the dock. The trick with these is that the hot water tank heats the water to about 80C or so (far too dangerous for use) then the hot water is delivered to the sink via a mixing valve, to bring it down to safe levels. This stretches the tank to 10 gallons or more.

So yeah, it’s entirely possible to have a very respectable galley on a 27’ boat, you just aren’t likely to find one off the shelf.
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