Galley / Nav Station Renovation

[Not Sure]

Originally Posted by bob kingsland

I'm not sure who made a deposit in your wheaties this morning, Not Sure, but it's clear you haven't taken any Dale Carnegie courses lately. Who appointed you the arbiter of taste in this place? And who are you to say that Blahman hasn't improved his boat, made it more functional, and made it look better than it did before?

I guess we should all return to manila line and kerosene running lights. May we be so priveleged as to be granted a look at some of your own restorations, particularly those that make it look better than it did before, or haven't they happened yet?

Best, Bob S/V Restless

Oh no, they've happened all right. It's relatively easy to 'work on a boat' (well, not really). It is _not_ easy, however, to do a good job that A) increases the boat's value and/or seaworthiness and B) enhances the boat's original design. For instance, the Westsail 32's electrical system retrofit with the panel shown in the photo is a great and well-executed example of both A & B. The nav station and galley retrofit, however, is not. Over time, one acquires a sense of what looks 'right' and what doesn't look 'right' in a design for a boat retrofit. Another word for it may be 'taste'. That particular use of materials would look great on a ....say, Coronado yacht, and not a Westsail 32.

Some people tell the girl in the ugly dress that the dress looks 'gorgeous' even when it doesn't. I'd rather tell them the truth so that they hopefully don't make the same mistake again. My bad.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Ouch!..........especially as not yet finished

FWIW although I am in the camp of preferring to keep things as they are.........but with an older boat one has to accept that requirements change over the years, and even that not all of the original design was perfect......IMO nothing wrong with change - the trick is to keep in sympathy with the boat, but not neccesarily replicate. and for that IMO no need to go over woody, even if the original was.

I am half way through a "bit" of a refurb (started as a quick tidy up ) of a 40 yo boat, and that includes going for a clean & tidy look in design and materials with an eye on future ease of maintanence (or none )..........my Nav station will be refinished 99% as designed.......the Galley on the other hand will depend on how brave I feel when I get to their (and what year ) and have to make the decisions I have been long mulling over......

No photos until finished though

[Christian Van H]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Ouch!..........especially as not yet finished
No photos until finished though

I dont know about your boat, David, but your Goat is ugly!

[Chipg]

Geez, Bob. That was one heck of a project you took on. Looks great!

[motion30]

I sure look nice and clean to me and unlike wood maintance free Great job

[Christian Van H]

I'm with Not Sure on this one... I like the interior of my boat to resemble a deep, dark hole...or maybe a coffin. Why on earth would we want to make our cabins brighter? It might lift our depressions. Remember though...your "Classic" Westsail is still molded from 'Glass and frozen snot!

PS to Bob Kingsland; I've never seen this side of you before! You are not only talented, you're funny too! I'd like to see a "Build off" between you and James S. Would beat the hell out of an episode of Iron Chef...

PSS: More people have shot themselves aboard Westsails than any other boat. OK, I just made that up.

[James S]

If you look closely at the lower right hand corner of the table top in your pictures you will see that the one that the one in the upper picture, that was removed, was very poorly done and not at all the same craftsmanship as the one in the lower picture.

To my eye, the counter top material looks much more like cedar than mahogany.
I have been able to make radias-ed bull noses corners and I am not a "Master Carpenter". see picture.

We have posted pictures of our work as amateurs. I would love to see some examples of professional work so that we can learn and do better.

If you could post some pictures of your work and maybe some tips I think we could all benefit.

[Christian Van H]

Originally Posted by James S

I have been able to make radias-ed bull noses corners and I am not a "Master Carpenter". see picture.

James, that is beautiful work. I now bestow upon you the title of Master Carpenter! Congrats my friend! Now, in all seriousness, could you describe the tools and techniques you used to form those wonderful corners? I am getting ready to get back into interior work, and I WANT THOSE FOR MY OWN!!!

[FrankZ]

Christian,

Just make out a blank check and send it to James along with detailed specifications. I am sure he will make your boat as lovely as he has made his own.

[James S]

Thanks.
I used a 1/2 inch router set up under a table, shaft up...and you use it like a shaper.
Rough cut the corner piece shape...then tack on a template with the exact shape of the corner…the template needs to be as accurate as you can get it.

Put a bit in the router the profile you want the nose with a bearing off-set on the top of the shaft...that bearing will follow the edge of the template.

Take small bites.

Depending on the size and shape of your bit you may have to flip the piece over to get the other side…that’s how I did this piece…you can see in this picture that the top and bottom are symmetrical.

Change the bit for the shape you want on the inside.

Start out with the piece longer than you need ...then you cut back the ends to suit your final length and end angles.

Once your set up its pretty easy.
Get a sanding drum with flush bearing for the router as well…their great.

You can also use a shaper table if you can get your hands on one.

For the hand hold, How about a bit of wood 8 or 10cm high by 2-1/2 or 3cm wide, on edge, fit around the outside top with about half its height on the top becoming the hand hold..of course you would router the top and maybe a little detail on the bottom.
It would be kinda like a thick fiddle.

[Not Sure]

Originally Posted by James S

Thanks.
I used a 1/2 inch router set up under a table, shaft up...and you use it like a shaper.
Rough cut the corner piece shape...then tack on a template with the exact shape of the corner…the template needs to be as accurate as you can get it.

Put a bit in the router the profile you want the nose with a bearing off-set on the top of the shaft...that bearing will follow the edge of the template.

Take small bites.

Depending on the size and shape of your bit you may have to flip the piece over to get the other side…that’s how I did this piece…you can see in this picture that the top and bottom are symmetrical.

Change the bit for the shape you want on the inside.

Start out with the piece longer than you need ...then you cut back the ends to suit your final length and end angles.

Once your set up its pretty easy.
Get a sanding drum with flush bearing for the router as well…their great.

You can also use a shaper table if you can get your hands on one.

For the hand hold, How about a bit of wood 8 or 10cm high by 2-1/2 or 3cm wide, on edge, fit around the outside top with about half its height on the top becoming the hand hold..of course you would router the top and maybe a little detail on the bottom.
It would be kinda like a thick fiddle.

LOL! In other words, you'll needs access to a halfway decent woodworking shop and/or 'handyman'/amateur shop loaded with toys, you'll need to fashion jigs, and you'll likely need a sufficient amount of materials to get past the learning curve required necessary to produce consistent quality results without buggering the pieces up in the process.

I don't need to post photos. I could care less whether you believe me or not. Any old schmo can find photos of their purported 'work' to post. The fact is, it is not easy to produce nice hardwood custom bullnose, and whether or not you're a 'master carpenter' or 'professional' matters little. It still takes some decent amount of practice and/or trial and error to produce decent results, and some amount of previous woodworking experience to even get that far.

In other words, not something produced by your average boat owner or kit finisher.

The difference between you and all of your tools and jigs and steps in your 'instructions' is that I can go into a Home Depot, pick out a hand jigsaw, a circular saw, a hand router, and hand sander off of the shelf, go down and get a piece of oak or whatnot in the wood aisle, and in an hour or so right there in the store made on the counter have four 90 degree bullnose pieces made entirely by hand sitting there that you wouldn't be able to tell from your shop-fabbed pieces of bullnose. That's what makes a 'master' a master, friend. And in case you still don't get it, let me spell it out further. Any no-talent half-wit can produce decent results when they have access to Norm Abram's shop and unlimited time. The 'master' can produce quality when simply equipped with the most rudimentary and basic of tools ...by hand and 'in the field', lickety split.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Not Sure

It still takes some decent amount of practice and/or trial and error to produce decent results, and some amount of previous woodworking experience to even get that far.

I've had loads of practice over many many years.........this is one of my better results




Please don't knock those of us who use power tools, it used to take me hours to get a result like above - but with full power I can now acheive that effect in minutes

[Not Sure]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

I've had loads of practice over many many years.........this is one of my better results




Please don't knock those of us who use power tools, it used to take me hours to get a result like above - but with full power I can now acheive that effect in minutes

Good one! But don't sell yourself short. I've seen worse by actual 'professionals'. And by 'hand' I mean freehand and/or with handheld tools only....not that I'm specifically whittling away the wood with a stone hammer and flint chisel, sans electricity.

[FloridaWriter]

Originally Posted by Not Sure

LOL! In other words, you'll needs access to a halfway decent woodworking shop and/or 'handyman'/amateur shop loaded with toys, you'll need to fashion jigs, and you'll likely need a sufficient amount of materials to get past the learning curve required necessary to produce consistent quality results without buggering the pieces up in the process.

I don't need to post photos. I could care less whether you believe me or not. Any old schmo can find photos of their purported 'work' to post. The fact is, it is not easy to produce nice hardwood custom bullnose, and whether or not you're a 'master carpenter' or 'professional' matters little. It still takes some decent amount of practice and/or trial and error to produce decent results, and some amount of previous woodworking experience to even get that far.

In other words, not something produced by your average boat owner or kit finisher.

The difference between you and all of your tools and jigs and steps in your 'instructions' is that I can go into a Home Depot, pick out a hand jigsaw, a circular saw, a hand router, and hand sander off of the shelf, go down and get a piece of oak or whatnot in the wood aisle, and in an hour or so right there in the store made on the counter have four 90 degree bullnose pieces made entirely by hand sitting there that you wouldn't be able to tell from your shop-fabbed pieces of bullnose. That's what makes a 'master' a master, friend. And in case you still don't get it, let me spell it out further. Any no-talent half-wit can produce decent results when they have access to Norm Abram's shop and unlimited time. The 'master' can produce quality when simply equipped with the most rudimentary and basic of tools ...by hand and 'in the field', lickety split.

Why don't you go fashion some of those hand-made bullnoses and leave this thread alone.

[Not Sure]

Originally Posted by FloridaWriter

Why don't you go fashion some of those hand-made bullnoses and leave this thread alone.

You're right...I should be out working on my boat, since I aim to have her back in the water next month....4 months after I pulled her out. Otherwise, it will end up taking me, uh...... 4 years. Know what I mean?