Galley / Nav Station Renovation

[James S]

I used the female for the lid mold as you thought.

Mat can be worked into a corner/radius as small 3/16in. are you less than that?
Don’t forget you can start with filler (resin and microballons or that bondoglass stuff you mention) in your corners then start with the mat on top...I used a layer of woven roving as well.

Be damn sure your female is fair and with a bit of a positive slope, mine was completely finished, painted.

Yes...I waxed it, but still had two spots stick, and pulled the paint off the female side.

I always expect to do some post lay-up touch-up.

I kept the bottom from sagging by laying a slick piece of Formica on the bottom ledge and taping its corners with some of that brown shinny packing tape. It may not all be created equal…the stuff I used didn’t have any trouble dealing with the resin.

Another trick is to use play dough in the corners (like the kids use for making shapes).
It can be easily worked into a nice radius.
It will still need to be waxed and will still require post molding fairing.

In my case it didn’t mater that the bottom was higher by the thickness of the Formica.
If its an issue with yours, you can make a sub frame inside the box to lay it on and have it be flush…..then taping the joint would be easy.

I’m not sure just how perfect the bottom of the lid needs to be…of course it should be smooth and faired but the seals will be glued to it so will be sealed.
The surface that’s needs to be the flattest is the female where the seal will rest.

If you need to leave room for your gasket it starts getting to be a little more work and my get you into a dimension problem. If you know exactly what the gaskets thickness will be WHEN COMPRESSED you may be able to add spacers and fair/tape before you glass.

If not send a sectional detail/sketch of the male female with gasket in between and there may be a safer way to make the lid but in two steps.

With the quick reply you can still edit you post for about 30 minutes after you post it.

[blahman]

James,

Thank you for the thorough response. My first row of corners are nearly 90, but the second row has corners. However, right now, the edges are all fairly sharp, but I haven't done the first round of fairing. I'm a full time college student, and am back in Miami for the week.

I was thinking about spraying the female side with hairspray, then laying cellophane all around the joint. Then laying bondo on that for the first layer. The hairspray should keep the cellophane tight against the joint, letting the bondoglass conform pretty closely. Then I can build up on that. and it should all remove fairly easily.

I'll have to locate some of the gaskets I plan to use to see about thickness. Another thing I'm considering is making the frame of the latches from balsa wood, which is very easy to shape and flash glue. It could be epoxied and fiberglassed.

Cheers,
Aaron N.

[James S]

Sounds like you’re thinking it through.

All I can say is no matter how you do it,
Do it right, Do it once!

I don’t think I’m telling you anything, all the work I’ve seen from the pics of your boat looks to be a very high standard indeed.

[blahman]

Hey all,

We finally got our counters!!! We wound up using Corian brand, "Sandstone" style. The cost was reasonable and the quality is outstanding. Now we can finally finish out the galley and get the interior usable again. Of course, with no boomkin or bowsprit on the boat, it's going to be tough to sail much, but at least we can make some progress on the inside with fans and shade. It's too darn hot to work on the the deck right now; next month.

Check out the whole galley project here:
Galley/Nav Makeover

I'm still working on the underside, but in essence I'm doing this:

Used 1/4" plywood and cut it to fit the first level of the icebox top. The lip it sits in is 1/2" deep, leaving 1/4" for a foam gasket.

Then, 1/2" in from the edge of the plywood, I mounted 1/2"x3/4" strips of wood that fill the area where the second "lip" of the icebox is. This lip is 1.5" deep, so the 3/4" wood strip fills half of that. On the wood strip, a magnetic strip is glued. On the icebox side, we're mounting a magnetic refrigerator gasket from yourgasketguy.com:



So we have a rectangle lid about 26" long by about 12" wide, on the underside of a which there is a wood rectangle made of dowel. Inside of that, I cut and layered 1/2" polyurethane foam panels to be 4" thick. Then I took a palm sander and sanded the wood spacers and foam to match the taper of the icebox. Then, I sealed the foam with epoxy, and after it cured, used body filler to fill in all of the inconsistencies. Then a coated it with thickened epoxy, and a single layer of fiberglass cloth covering the foam and wood spacers/magnetic strip. This is faired, primed, painted, and will be attached to the Corian.

I only have one little photo of them mid-design; they're siting on top of one another.:


All of that said; I'll take some better photos and explain a bit clearer later. I was planning to write up something for Windblown (Westsail Owner's Association periodical) once we'd finished our galley/icebox/nav rebuild.

Cheers!
Aaron

[James S]

Thanks for the picture link...fantastic!
That counter top is excellent.
Big job on the fridge lid...getting it all to be flush when you finish is challenging for sure.

[Not Sure]

I feel that the Westsail32 factory nav/galley installations in teak/mahogany wood were(and are) classically beautiful, and by tearing them out and replacing them with crappy manmade materials you did the boat and yourselves a huge disservice. Besides which, they don't look near as nice now as they were before you started. (The question one must ask themselves before beginning any boat 'restoration', particularly a classic boat such as the Westsail 32, is --Can I make this look better than it did before? -- and sadly you failed IMHO to deliver on that one simple premise.)

[speedoo]

Originally Posted by Not Sure

I feel that the Westsail32 factory nav/galley installations in teak/mahogany wood were(and are) classically beautiful, and by tearing them out and replacing them with crappy manmade materials you did the boat and yourselves a huge disservice. Besides which, they don't look near as nice now as they were before you started. (The question one must ask themselves before beginning any boat 'restoration', particularly a classic boat such as the Westsail 32, is --Can I make this look better than it did before? -- and sadly you failed IMHO to deliver on that one simple premise.)

I learned a long time ago that if I don't have something good to say about someone's boat, that I should say nothing. Or maybe lie a little if I care about that person.

You might want to think about that, because after all, it's their boat and they get to choose what to do with it. If you have a negative opinion about something that has already been done, why not just keep it to yourself?

[defjef]

If you are dealing with a well designed interior I believe one needs to respect the design vocabulary of the architect when you make modifications.

Whatever they are, they should fit seamlessly from an aesthetic point of view. In the case of many classic yacht interiors they are dark with lots of teak. One needs to be careful when trying to use modern light colored high teak materials or details or you might destroy the look of the boat.

There is a place to add some contrast and mix and match a bit such as in lighting and plumbing fixtures. Nav stations do represent the introduction of high tech "gizmos" into what looks like an aesthetic which predates these devices. This is a perfect example of how difficult the mixing of the new with the old can be.

[James S]

I think the new material and design is not only an improvement on the functionality but also much more pleasing esthetically....there is a lot to be said for lighter colors here and there.
Good job and well thought out.

[Not Sure]

Originally Posted by James S

I think the new material and design is not only an improvement on the functionality but also much more pleasing esthetically....there is a lot to be said for lighter colors here and there.
Good job and well thought out.

Unfortunately, your opinion is null and void in this instance, since you're doing the exact same type of retrofit to your boat, so your opinion is naturally biased. Not to mention the fact that you also offered suggestions to further the ugliness of the design, instead of speaking up and saying that it wasn't in keeping with the rest of the interior design of the Westsail 32.

I'm looking at it as a neutral party who also works on boats and has no financial or any other type of thing to gain by voicing such an opinion....the reverse in fact, as some of the attacking comments have shown.

[FrankZ]

Originally Posted by Not Sure

Unfortunately, your opinion is null and void in this instance, since you're doing the exact same type of retrofit to your boat, so your opinion is naturally biased. Not to mention the fact that you also offered suggestions to further the ugliness of the design, instead of speaking up and saying that it wasn't in keeping with the rest of the interior design of the Westsail 32.

I'm looking at it as a neutral party who also works on boats and has no financial or any other type of thing to gain by voicing such an opinion....the reverse in fact, as some of the attacking comments have shown.

His opinion is no less valid than yours, even if it is biased. What you think is pretty or ugly is truly your opinion, and the aesthetic tastes of one member is not always going to mesh with another member. It is, however, generally considered rude to tell someone they have an ugly boat.

[Not Sure]

Originally Posted by FrankZ

His opinion is no less valid than yours, even if it is biased. What you think is pretty or ugly is truly your opinion, and the aesthetic tastes of one member is not always going to mesh with another member. It is, however, generally considered rude to tell someone they have an ugly boat.

Uh, no. There is good design and there is bad design, there is design that matches and there is design that clashes. These are not mere subjective issues, they are basic fundamentals of design, like it or not. For example, wear some plaid pants, a plaid shirt, and a plaid jacket...all of them different plaids, and see if you can't figure out what is wrong with your 'look'. And see if people tell you that you look nice. Maybe they will, but it certainly wouldn't be the truth, nor would their politeness be doing you any favors.

I never said he had an 'ugly boat'. The exact reverse is true in fact, the Westsail 32 is one of my favorite boats, which is why the removal of all of that beautiful teak and mahogany is all the more disturbing. There were only so many Westsail 32's made, and that is one whose original interior design has been altered forever. Hopefully there are numerous other examples that haven't been 'improved' in such a manner so that they can be used as a pattern should some later owner wish to restore her to her former glory.

Corian (and imitators) designs such as that nav/galley are like aluminum siding on a house, they may look 'nice' at first, but it isn't long before they look like the inside of a 20 year old mobile home. By contrast, that teak and mahogany that was torn out is timeless, and only gains character with age. (And that is beside the fact that teak is now selling for $25 a board ft.)

[Christian Van H]

Originally Posted by Not Sure

Uh, no. There is good design and there is bad design, there is design that matches and there is design that clashes.

Dear Mr. Troll, I have checked your profile, and can find no photo album with pics of your current and past renovation work. Please post some of your good designs for us to compare...teach us, oh great one!

[speedoo]

Originally Posted by Not Sure

Uh, no. There is good design and there is bad design, there is design that matches and there is design that clashes. These are not mere subjective issues, they are basic fundamentals of design, like it or not. For example, wear some plaid pants, a plaid shirt, and a plaid jacket...all of them different plaids, and see if you can't figure out what is wrong with your 'look'. And see if people tell you that you look nice. Maybe they will, but it certainly wouldn't be the truth, nor would their politeness be doing you any favors.

I never said he had an 'ugly boat'. The exact reverse is true in fact, the Westsail 32 is one of my favorite boats, which is why the removal of all of that beautiful teak and mahogany is all the more disturbing. There were only so many Westsail 32's made, and that is one whose original interior design has been altered forever. Hopefully there are numerous other examples that haven't been 'improved' in such a manner so that they can be used as a pattern should some later owner wish to restore her to her former glory.

Corian (and imitators) designs such as that nav/galley are like aluminum siding on a house, they may look 'nice' at first, but it isn't long before they look like the inside of a 20 year old mobile home. By contrast, that teak and mahogany that was torn out is timeless, and only gains character with age. (And that is beside the fact that teak is now selling for $25 a board ft.)

Altered forever? No. The stuff he put in can be taken out and replaced with the same kind of wood that was there originally. Just takes time and money. You occasionally make a good point, but your over the top statements and general rudeness get in the way.

[bob kingsland]

I'm not sure who made a deposit in your wheaties this morning, Not Sure, but it's clear you haven't taken any Dale Carnegie courses lately. Who appointed you the arbiter of taste in this place? And who are you to say that Blahman hasn't improved his boat, made it more functional, and made it look better than it did before?

I guess we should all return to manila line and kerosene running lights. May we be so priveleged as to be granted a look at some of your own restorations, particularly those that make it look better than it did before, or haven't they happened yet?

Best, Bob S/V Restless