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Amgine · 31-05-2007, 12:01

I yanked the furler off the boat after the first sail - and headsail wrap - with it. I like hanks because they don't break down in that way. I like lo-tek.

But everyone (and especially the sailmaker) suggests a furler for the big trip. And there's a lot of money involved in new dresses. So I thought I'd ask everyone's opinion as to furlers for small boats.

The boat is a Cape Dory 25D (small, moderately heavy, rather old-fashioned rig to go with long keel.) I wouldn't be considering a non-reefing furler (the 'small-boat' style so popular atm with racing asyms.)

I = 32'
P = 27' 3"
J = 10' 3"
(E = 10' 3" too)

So, dig in here, how do you really feel about furlers/brands?

**Alan Wheeler** · 31-05-2007, 12:22

Not fobbing you off, but If you do a quick search, you will find this question asked and answered many times on the board. Some very good discussion. Then feel free to ask away if you do not have your question answered.

svTOTEM · 31-05-2007, 13:16

When a furler works wells, it's a nice tool to make sail handling easier. When the furler has problems, issues range from frustration to danger.

I'm not up on the pros/cons of different furler brands. My current boat, and last boat, both had Profurl installed when I purchased them. The only problem I've had was when trying to furl while not near head to wind. The halyard tries to wrap around the headstay and binds things up. This can happen with any furling system. The solution is a halyard guide mounted to the mast below the halyard sheave. This increases the angle at which the halyard attaches to the head, making a wrap less likely.

As a former sailmaker, I can speak to the idea of furler reefing. I would only partial furl the headsail if:
1) You must for safety or a boat handling situation (easily reducing sail in the middle of the night, etc.).
2) The “reef” (partial furl) is only for a short duration.
3) You don’t mind replacing your one-headsail-fits all conditions fairly frequently. This is not my preference, but a valid approach as apposed to having multiple headsails for different conditions.

The problems of reefing a headsail on a furler:
1) Doing so changes the load paths, for which the sailcloth was oriented. When the yarns are aligned with the load axis, then your sailcloth is happy. When the loads are off axis by more then 15 or 20 degree (bias loading), then your sailcloth becomes sad (stretched and may reach a yield point –permanent stretch). Your sailmaker will tell you that this is solved with a reinforcement patch at partially furled points on the sail. I guarantee that you will acquire permanent wrinkles around the perimeter of the reinforcing patch where it meets the single ply sailcloth. The closest thing to a solution here is to use high modulus material (spectra for cruising) with multi-axial yarns.
2) If you sail in lighter winds, a genoa of your dimensions would be made from 4 or 5 oz. cloth. When the breeze comes on and you furl it up to look like a jib then the 4 or 5 oz. cloth is not the right choice anymore. So, do you build a heavy genoa that furls ok, but is lousy in light air or visa/versa?
3) I could go on but will limit it to one more point. When you partially furl a headsail (presumably to reduce area for stronger winds), the remaining sail is much higher off of the deck then a conventional smaller sail. You want the sail a little of the deck for water reasons. Furling a 135% down to a 90% will put the sail way high, thereby contributing to the heeling force on the boat. If the idea of reefing in the first place is better control, less load, etc. then a partially furled headsail doesn’t make sense.

rtbates · 31-05-2007, 13:39

I too sail a Cape Dory 25D. WITH the 130 genoa on a roller furler/reefer. IMHO it's the only way to go. Halyard wrap is a problem with the way the unit is installed, probably by a previous owner. It will not happen if the unit is set up correctly. My 130 will reef down to slightly less than 100 and I can still go to weather. With reefed to around 50-40% I can sail off the wind in 40kts + quite nicely. That's w/o any main set. And with the small sails on a 25D, if you put a third reef in the main, and use a good headsail furler/reefer, you do not need any storm sails for off shore work. Try that on a 40 footer!!

MIke Cunningham is currently sailing the Pacific on his 25D setup this way.

Go to the CD board IF you want good Cape Dory specific information. Cape Dory Boats - Index. Tell them Randy sent ya!

dkall · 31-05-2007, 13:59

The halyard is internal in the furling pieces and is actually tightened at the base of the furling system. Nice also that it frees up a halyard.

**Boracay** · 31-05-2007, 18:32

I am contemplating putting a furler on the forestay of my boat and having the staysail hanked on on the basis that when I reduce sail I will furl the headsail fully and just sail with the staysail.

If the wind gets up (and maybe at night) I would either remove (or tie down) the staysail (with attendant action on the main.

Does anyone have experience in doing this? (i.e. Either having the headsail either furled or out fully.)

Lancerbye · 31-05-2007, 22:41

I have reefer furling on both main and 140 Genoa. the main is loose footed( no boom). It works very nicely and the Lancer 44 sails amazingly well on most points. I bought the vessel last year and haven't done anything with the off-mast reefer furler or the Genoa furler. I want to strip it down and check it out. I can't identify the make or model. It looks like a Profurl set up but I am not sure. I believe it is original equipment. Does anyone have any knowledge of this gear on this type of boat?

**GordMay** · 01-06-2007, 01:50

There'a a lot of good on-line articles on furling/reffing gear, including:

” How to Keep Your Jib Furler Alive” ~ by Brion Toss
”... I limited interviews to five major manufacturers: Schaefer, Harken, Hood, Profurl, and Furlex. Partly this was because these companies account for most of the furlers in the world, and partly because they therefore have the most experience with how furlers can survive and fail. In the interests of clarity, I did not include electrical or hydraulic systems, nor either in-mast nor in-boom mainsail furling systems.

So how do you keep your jib furler alive? You start by asking a series of questions, and then do your best with the answers. We'll begin with the wire that the furler hangs on ...”
Goto: Brion Toss Yacht Riggers Fairleads Newsletter

“Servicing a Harken Furler”
”... The three most common furling problems are: halyard wrap, too much halyard tension, and a too loose forestay - in that order ...
Goto: Harken: Servicing a Harken Furler

“The Rap On Halyard Wrap”
”... There are two solutions most commonly used prevent this problem depending upon the relationship between the sheave and headstay. The first is to install a halyard diverter. This device is installed on boats where the sheave is to close to the headstay. The diverter is mounted on the mast below the genoa halyard exit thus increasing the angle of the halyard. Likewise when the sheave is low enough a pennant can be installed at the top of the sail. This raises the halyard swivel up to the sheave box thus keeping the halyard from wrapping ...”
Goto: The Rap On Halyard Wrap - Around The World Of Sailing

Tnflakbait · 01-06-2007, 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by rtbates

WITH the 130 genoa on a roller furler/reefer. IMHO it's the only way to go. Halyard wrap is a problem with the way the unit is installed, probably by a previous owner. It will not happen if the unit is set up correctly. My 130 will reef down to slightly less than 100 and I can still go to weather. With reefed to around 50-40% I can sail off the wind in 40kts + quite nicely.

I do the exact same on my Cat. CDI furler. I love it.

Brent Swain · 20-06-2007, 12:15

Put a block on the top of the extrusion ,for the halyard , attach the other end of the halyard to the drum when the sail is hoisted and tighten it with a downhaul. Halyard wrap eliminated as well as the complex , expensive trouble prone and totally uneccessary bearing contraption at the top. I'v e used this arrangement for decades now with no problems. The simplicity rig also uses this arrangement, as do other rigs. A freind who worked ata riggers shope said many people were scrapping the halyard contraption and going for this arrangerment with good results.
The furler in my book uses this arrangement. It costs around $100 for materials.
Brent Swain

Amgine · 20-06-2007, 12:52

Louis Riel: This sounds cool, but I'm afraid I got completely lost in the description. Do you have a picture of your setup? is there a full description written anywhere? book, what book?

Amgine

**Pblais** · 20-06-2007, 12:53

Quote:

I am contemplating putting a furler on the forestay of my boat and having the staysail hanked on on the basis that when I reduce sail I will furl the headsail fully and just sail with the staysail.

If the wind gets up (and maybe at night) I would either remove (or tie down) the staysail (with attendant action on the main.

I have furlers on both. The main idea is I fly the big sail in the lighter wind and the smaller sail when the wind picks up. This past fall we had to furl in the staysail. The wind was gusting to 40 knots.

Our CSY 33 has a hanked on club footed staysail of only 90 sq ft so it's a small sail. My friend Max solos his CSY 33 all over and recently across the North Atlantic. At times it was the only sail he had up. being self tacking it was great for solo sailing. It's not fast.

I also wrapped the halyard on the CSY 33 and installed a diverter as discussed by Gord above. When the lead angle is flat it's really easy to wrap with just a bit of lost halyard tension. The big lesson I learned the hard way is if you think you need a winch to furl the head sail when head to wind then it means it's probably wrapping already. The diverter was $66 and it never wrapped again. If you have to furl it with hands alone you will find it very hard to wrap a halyard. With a winch I unlaid the forestay. Very bad thing to do even when you have an inner forestay to help.

Brent Swain · 20-06-2007, 16:48

MNy book Origami Metal Boatbuilding tells you how to build a furler with only one moving part for around $100 worth of materials.If you are in Vancouver, look for a "Simplicite " furler to see how the halyard works.
Brent

**Alan Wheeler** · 20-06-2007, 22:51

Instead of leading your posts towards the point where you then promote your book, how about postings some photos and giving some better discription here.