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Old 21-12-2011, 19:19   #16
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Re: Fuel Polishing

Hi Pete,
Thanks for the pictures. Looks like you keep it onboard?

My thought is to keep the fuel polishing unit portable - off the boat except maybe if we were doing a really long cruise.

What did you use for the fuel line? I'm not sure what material I could use given that it would not be a permanent attachment.

Dave
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Old 21-12-2011, 19:31   #17
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Re: Fuel Polishing

Wow. Checked out your site about the upgrading of Ugly Ducking. That's a lot of work, looked as new. But you've got to let us know when the larger shaft is working.

What material did you use for the hoses? I would have guessed that the red hose wouldn't be strong enough to provide suction. Or maybe you're pumping back in at this stage.

How often do you change the external filter?
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Old 21-12-2011, 19:41   #18
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Re: Fuel Polishing

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Originally Posted by dave777 View Post
Wow. Checked out your site about the upgrading of Ugly Ducking. That's a lot of work, looked as new. But you've got to let us know when the larger shaft is working.

What material did you use for the hoses? I would have guessed that the red hose wouldn't be strong enough to provide suction. Or maybe you're pumping back in at this stage.

How often do you change the external filter?
I need to up date the blog a bit. The new shaft is excellent!!!!

The (red) suction hose is clear poly thick wall tubing attached to a copper pipe. It does fine unless it gets a blockage, then it'll collapse but opens back up afterwords.

The NAPA filter I change every year and keep spares on hand.
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Old 21-12-2011, 23:16   #19
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Re: Fuel Polishing

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My tank inspection hole isn't big enough to get my hands in. Big hands!

It's any condensation or bacteria growth build up over the winter that I go after. If it gets scrubbed thru the 10 micron scrubber, then surely the 5 & 3 micron motor filters will catch the rest w/o plugging them up right away.
From when I did mine, the gunk on the walls and the sludge in the bottom isn't going to break loose unless you really bash the boat pretty hard, or physically move it with paper towels or a scrubbing device. I'd put it akin to washing your dishes by just trying to rinse them off without actually hitting them with a scrub brush.

On the plus side, it hadn't been done in years and it wasn't that bad. But the garbage in there isn't going anywhere unless you physically knock it loose.

Rebel Heart - Sailing, cruising, liveaboard blog and website - Eric's Blog - (final?) thoughts on cleaning out the diesel*tank
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Old 21-12-2011, 23:34   #20
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Re: Fuel Polishing

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This pump has quite a bit of suction. Filters are meant to be pressurized, it might collapse the paper element, but it might be worth a try. Maybe if I plumb it backwards.
I faced much the same problem but with bug and crap thrown in for good measure! I bought a fuel transfer pump and trigger nozzle, mated it to a high flow water separator/filter mounted on the suction side of the pump with a long rigid pickup tube and pump the fuel out through the inspection port and return it through the filler.
The pump is a high volume model and the first time I ran it I couldn't believe the crap, water and crud that it sucked up. Works really well!!
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Old 22-12-2011, 08:09   #21
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Re: Fuel Polishing

Quote:
But the garbage in there isn't going anywhere unless you physically knock it loose.
That is true, but a good fuel polishing system used regularly should minimize the build up after the tank is cleaned. I would still recommend tank inspections and cleaning as part of preventive maintenance program.
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Old 22-12-2011, 09:17   #22
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I can can confirm that after 8 years of fuel polishing, my tanks are as clean now as they were 8 years ago.

Also, the diesel fuel I have in the tanks now, was bought 4 years ago in Colombia. There is no expiry date on diesel when you polish it and add some biocide now and then. I use the newer enzyme based treatment instead (the light blue liquid).

Gas is a different story, I would not want to try this with gas at all.

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Old 22-12-2011, 09:41   #23
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Re: Fuel Polishing

If you take an old tank and put in new ethanol laced gasoline, the years of varnish and muck will redissolve into the fuel and make a nasty mess. then you will have to polish the fuel. I setup a carter rotary vane pump with 4 micron cartridge filters on each side of the pump. The first filter protects the pump.
This way I get a double filtration on a single pass. For the pickup, I used a 3/8 copper tube with some crosswise slots cut into the bottom. I bought cheap polyethylene 5/16 hose and used some section of 3/8 rubber fuel line to join all the pieces together. I just slid the hoses together, no clamps were needed. The pump can suck through 20 feet of tubing and pump back again into the tank and it flows well.

The clear poly tubing is gas proof, and you can see the color and muckiness of the fuel as the pump runs.



I simply pumped from one tank to the other tank back and forth again and again till it was clean. A lot of sticky sludge was in there and all of that was on the tank bottom.
I also pumped back into the same tank and just let it run for 5 hours at a time, just continually cycling the gas for a few days while I was out working on the boat.
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Old 22-12-2011, 12:02   #24
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Re: Fuel Polishing

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Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
If you take an old tank and put in new ethanol laced gasoline, the years of varnish and muck will redissolve into the fuel and make a nasty mess. then you will have to polish the fuel. I setup a carter rotary vane pump with 4 micron cartridge filters on each side of the pump. The first filter protects the pump.
This way I get a double filtration on a single pass. For the pickup, I used a 3/8 copper tube with some crosswise slots cut into the bottom. I bought cheap polyethylene 5/16 hose and used some section of 3/8 rubber fuel line to join all the pieces together. I just slid the hoses together, no clamps were needed. The pump can suck through 20 feet of tubing and pump back again into the tank and it flows well.

The clear poly tubing is gas proof, and you can see the color and muckiness of the fuel as the pump runs.



I simply pumped from one tank to the other tank back and forth again and again till it was clean. A lot of sticky sludge was in there and all of that was on the tank bottom.
I also pumped back into the same tank and just let it run for 5 hours at a time, just continually cycling the gas for a few days while I was out working on the boat.

Nice setup! Proper separators and double filtering is good. Fix it all to a piece of ply like the other guys and I'd say it wins the prize.
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Old 22-12-2011, 12:31   #25
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Re: Fuel Polishing

Another tip: when it is really dirty, filter elements will clog up pretty fast. Do not start with too fine elements. I use 30 microns for polishing if it's bad (when I first started polishing or when I get a bad load of fuel). When all is normal I have a 10 micron element in there. When I start with 30 micron, I will repeat with 10 micron.

You can clean these 30 micron elements in some diesel fuel and use again. I use a vacuum meter to determine when to replace or clean an element.

My regular primary fuel filters are 2 micron which is the same as the filters on the engine. You can only do that when you polish your fuel on a regular basis. Use 10 micron otherwise.

I do not know every type of filter out there, but most incl. Racor are designed to work in suction mode, not pressure mode. I have a Racor 500 between sump pickup and the pump. This also extends the life of the pump as it gets filtered fuel instead of fuel/water/crud mixture. These pumps are self priming so will draw the air out of the filter element, no need to fill them with fuel like you would do for the primary filter on the engine itself.



ciao!
Nick.
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Old 22-12-2011, 13:13   #26
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Re: Fuel Polishing

Oh Nick, you just started a whole nother debate about filter micron size.



Nice drawing by the way.
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Old 22-12-2011, 13:46   #27
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Re: Fuel Polishing

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Oh Nick, you just started a whole nother debate about filter micron size.



Nice drawing by the way.
LOL, I was just going to ask about those 2 microns. My mechanic told me not to use less than a 5 micron as it can cause fuel starvation in some engines as the delivery rate is slower through a finer filter. But I am not a diesel mechanic and I'm guessing Jedi's setup works great for him and was well thought out and researched. I'd think with two 2 micron filters in series the delivery rate would be pretty slow, but what do I know? Not much when it comes to diesel mechanics...
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Old 22-12-2011, 13:48   #28
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Re: Fuel Polishing

Tank sludge in a bucket
I have twin 150 gallon tanks and each one held about 3 gallons of sludge which the E10 fuel redissolved into the gas.
It was so bad I had to do 2 setups, first use a vacuum jar then use a filter.
The tanks are 50 years old monel so had plenty of time to collect varnishes.
This brown goo was a sticky nasty substance which surprisingly washes off the buckets with ordinary water after an overnight soak. The stuff reeked of alcohol which made me wonder if it had phase separated.



Original setup to simply suck the crap off the tank bottom and it worked well.
As the jar filled up with sludge- gas mix, I decanted the fuel into one bucket, and the sludge into another bucket.
There was so much I had to do this every day for two weeks before I finally got the tanks clean. The motion in the slip helped to mix the tank.
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Old 22-12-2011, 14:18   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepFrz
Oh Nick, you just started a whole nother debate about filter micron size.



Nice drawing by the way.
haha... I'll handle that because been there, done that before Should write a book myself lol.

About the iagram: there is a full story to go with it. First hit on Google when you search for "Jedi fuel system"

cheers,
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Old 22-12-2011, 14:40   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret

LOL, I was just going to ask about those 2 microns. My mechanic told me not to use less than a 5 micron as it can cause fuel starvation in some engines as the delivery rate is slower through a finer filter. But I am not a diesel mechanic and I'm guessing Jedi's setup works great for him and was well thought out and researched. I'd think with two 2 micron filters in series the delivery rate would be pretty slow, but what do I know? Not much when it comes to diesel mechanics...
Mwah... depends on engine and filter size. My on-engine fuel filter is 2 microns, yours isn't? I mean factory standard fuel filter?

For primary filter, the manufacturer will give a hp range the filter will work for. I have the simple Racor 500 on my 140hp Yanmar. The 2 micron filter elements are rated for the full filter flow rate. What your mechanic might be scared for is a vacuum introducing air in he system. He is right for 99% of th cases he gets. Only when you polish your fuel regularly, you can put 2 micron elements in your primary filter. It will hardly get dirty because most dirt, think 90%, will be caught during polishing at 10 microns. I rarely see sailboats that polish their diesel oil like I do. Most panic and dump it when it's in their tanks for a couple of months. My diesel is 4 years old and good as new!

I really don't need to replace the pimary filter elements anymore. I do it now and then for the good feeling of it but there's hardly any dirt on them. On-engine filters I only replace when they start rusting. I did that a couple months ago and the paper element was still white.

I did find a new feature of my fuel system... I tried to drain the filter bowls but they got plugged with crud because I do this so Iittle. Instead of taking it apart, I now closed some valves on the manifolds and used the boost pump to pressurize the bowl, open the drain and there it spit out the hardened crud, immediately followed by clean fuel. A one minute job instead of 30 minutes or more

The best s bleeding the system... I don't even bother anymore, just start the boostpump, let it go for a couple of minutes, then just start the engine. Might take 5 seconds to start instead of the normal less than a second. I had it stop after a couple of seconds only once, just start again. After a couple of minutes,turn off the boost pump so that the normal lift pump takes over. No tools required.

cheers,
Nick.
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