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Old 19-12-2013, 19:44   #16
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Re: FRIGOBOAT HORROR (TRUE) STORY

Poor day if we don't learn something new. Hope we are rich today.
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Old 19-12-2013, 20:00   #17
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Re: FRIGOBOAT HORROR (TRUE) STORY

Clearly this picture shows a green bonding wire!.



The Keel Cooler that you speak of, really isn't, It's a through-hole cooler, should be made of bronze, maybe it was cast from some really bad high zinc brass.

The backing plate is clearly SS, with the attached green bonding wire.

This is certainly a case of stray current corrosion. Galvanic could not due this kind of damage in a few short weeks, even on the worst brass-high zinc content.

Most stray current corrosion starts on ownboat and does the most damage to ownboat underwater metals. You would be wise to remove the through hole just above the Frigoboat through hole.

As a matter of fact it would be wise to remove and inspect any and all T-holes on your boat, after the event you have had.

I would guess based on the fact that the damaged cooler has a green wire attached, it was an installer error.

I would like to know where that green wire went to, it must of some how connected to your shore power safety ground, and you have a stray current leak bonded to another under water fitting, and the stray current is jumping.

Lloyd
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Old 19-12-2013, 20:03   #18
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Re: FRIGOBOAT HORROR (TRUE) STORY

Quote:
Originally Posted by sabray View Post
I have to think that in the install you created a electrolytic reaction.
Wonder if a failed control board or compressor could cause this. Given that the reaction is limited to the refer and hasn't shown up at other parts I would suspect the wiring or a component failure in the refer parts. That should not be hard to figure out. Probably need a sparky to document the wiring and the components. I really doubt this is external marina issue. More like a bond or ground in the wrong place or current leak from the install.
I would look at how you are Ac grounded and what is new install to that ground.
+1 for using correct terminology, "electrolytic reaction" I say again do not take electrical advice from someone who says "electrolysis". Using that term proves they don't understand.
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Old 19-12-2013, 20:12   #19
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Re: FRIGOBOAT HORROR (TRUE) STORY

Galvanic corrosion could not cause that kind of damage in 3 weeks !

This is stray current.

Most likely You have an electrical problem on your boat, or perhaps the shore power connection is faulty.

Threats of lawsuits will not help you find the real problem.

Did your "electrolysis expert" offer any explanation for what could have caused the damage ?

Is there any other corrosion ? Prop ? Heat exchanger ? If the Frigoboat condenser was connected to your engine block, it would be wise to check.

Who installed the equipment ?

Why do you think this is a fault of the Frigoboat equipment ?

Good Luck,
JM.
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Old 19-12-2013, 20:16   #20
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Old 19-12-2013, 20:18   #21
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Re: FRIGOBOAT HORROR (TRUE) STORY

Quote:
Originally Posted by konakoma View Post
Bamboosailor, the boat is a Morgan, non bonded, since Charley didn't believe in bonding his boats. We grounded it to the Yanmar block, with all the other stuff.
So it was bonded or what do you mean "We grounded it to the Yanmar block, with all the other stuff"?



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Old 19-12-2013, 20:35   #22
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Re: FRIGOBOAT HORROR (TRUE) STORY

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Originally Posted by sy_gilana View Post
+1 for stray current.
Another vote for stray current.
Just look at all that pink metal !
No doubt about it imho.

Is the engine block ACTUALLY the same as the negative connection as the prop shaft?
Do you have more than one battery? Are they truly common negative? They should be.
What I'm getting at, is I suspect the electrical potential of the now missing keel cooler was NOT at battery negative potential, and possibly + several volts from the first install.

Another thought...
Where is your on-off power switch for the fridge's electronics? Is it in the NEGATIVE lead?
If so, there's your answer. The keel cooler would be at + battery voltage whenever the system is turned OFF, and it could easily be eaten in a couple of weeks.
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Old 19-12-2013, 20:35   #23
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Re: FRIGOBOAT HORROR (TRUE) STORY

Kokakoma, please don't be insulted but you use the terms "grounded" and "bonded" rather loosely and it appears you don't understand the difference.
Go to abycinc.org and locate a technician certified in Marine Corrosion Analysis.
I believe that's your best bet for finding someone who knows what they are doing.
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Old 19-12-2013, 21:01   #24
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Re: FRIGOBOAT HORROR (TRUE) STORY

the following is from the frigoboat install manual, unfortunately, very poorly copied. perhaps some of you electrically minded
guys can make heads or tails of it. any wonder i prefer air cooled?



4:2 Grounding and cleaning
Provision is provided for a grounding/bonding wire to be attached. It is very important that the
Keel Cooler is electrically connected to a point that is at the same potential as the boat’s battery
negative, with no switch in the circuit between the Keel Cooler connection and the battery
negative. This connecting wire should be green in color and of 8 AWG or higher.
If the Keel Cooler being installed is the type without zincs, it must be connected to the vessel’s
bonding system and also to a sacrificial zinc anode. This is an important safety precaution and
does not alter the fact that a connection must be made between the Keel Cooler and a point that is at
the same potential as the boat’s battery negative, whether the Keel Cooler has zincs or not. Bonding
wire should be green in color and of 8 AWG or higher.
If the installer is in any doubt as to how to make the grounding/bonding connections, a marine
electrical technician should be consulted.
The connections must be checked with a multi-meter after installation to ensure that Keel Cooler and
the battery negative post are at the same potential.
The sintered “Ground Plate” Keel Cooler should not be painted unless heavy and consistent fouling
proves to be an issue. Clean occasionally with a brush, never with a metal scraper. All models of
Keel Cooler must be inspected periodically for corrosion.
NOTE: Never operate a Keel Cooled system while the boat is out of the water without having first
rigged some form of temporary water cooling on the Keel Cooler. If a Capri air cooled condensing
unit or an Air Add-On air cooled condenser is installed together with a Keel Cooler, ensure that
the fan is operated when the boat is out of the water but switched off when the boat is launched.
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Old 19-12-2013, 21:01   #25
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Re: FRIGOBOAT HORROR (TRUE) STORY

From frigoboat.com:
"If the Keel Cooler being installed is the type without zincs, it must also be connected to the vessel’s bonding system and a sacrificial zinc anode. This is an important safety precaution and a connection must be made to the battery negative whether the keel cooler has zincs or not."

So, was your keel cooler connected to a sacrificial zinc anode? In any case, I agree with others that the damage looks too much for just galvanic corrosion?
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Old 19-12-2013, 21:12   #26
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Re: FRIGOBOAT HORROR (TRUE) STORY

Quote:
Originally Posted by onestepcsy37 View Post
NOTE: Never operate a Keel Cooled system while the boat is out of the water without having first
rigged some form of temporary water cooling on the Keel Cooler.

So what's a full time live aboard cruiser to do when they haul out and live on the hard in a Mexican boat yard for 3 weeks? Not have a refrigerator or freezer while on the hard? Then add the price of a hotel room to the haul out because my wife would be off the boat for sure.
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Old 19-12-2013, 21:25   #27
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Re: FRIGOBOAT HORROR (TRUE) STORY

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
So what's a full time live aboard cruiser to do when they haul out and live on the hard in a Mexican boat yard for 3 weeks? Not have a refrigerator or freezer while on the hard? Then add the price of a hotel room to the haul out because my wife would be off the boat for sure.
just run a garden hose over the cooler.

Lloyd
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Old 19-12-2013, 21:30   #28
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Re: FRIGOBOAT HORROR (TRUE) STORY

Rich,
That's exactly what you need to do.
Either the hotel room, no fridge, a constant stream of water on the cooler or an additional air cooler in the refrigerator line.
Having been through that scenario (yard, not fridge related) there's nothing better than an air conditioned place to sleep when you've been doing boat work all day.

We lucked out in being given a friend's house to use for a couple of weeks in San Carlos, Sonora while we were hauled in Marina Seca in October.

"Just" run a hose? In a Mexican yard? lol !
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Old 19-12-2013, 21:35   #29
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Re: FRIGOBOAT HORROR (TRUE) STORY

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"Just" run a hose? In a Mexican yard? lol !
That is right up there with finding a 120v power outlet in a Mexican yard (thank god for our Honda 2000)...ha ha ha
The 3 weeks we spent living aboard in the San Blas, Nayarit boat yard in March was a long three weeks indeed and we had refrigeration. Come to think of it now, it is a miracle my wife is still living aboard with me...
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Old 19-12-2013, 21:42   #30
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Nothing but great from our keel cooler frigoboat system for 4 years. Very efficient. This has to be electrolysis. Even cheap metal wouldn't disappear that quickly without electrical help....
Have to say that I can't see how frigoboat could be at fault. And I found their customer service very good. Did you "come at them" strongly? I found them very accomodating over the phone, but I can see how a business would have a script to convert to email coorespondence if someone called slinging accusations.
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