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Old 14-07-2008, 13:31   #1
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Foresail size

Greetings from the West of Ireland. I have a Yachting France Jouet 820. Is there any way of finding out the original sail sizes. The boat is producing bad weather helm at 5.5 knots in a strong breeze, I'm wondering is the foresail to large.
Dennis
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Old 15-07-2008, 14:59   #2
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?

I'm wondering if I posted in the correct place ?
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Old 16-07-2008, 00:18   #3
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Hi jouet - In rare cases there are no answers to be had.

I actually did do a little searching when I read your initial post. However there is very little information out there on the original sails. It would be difficult to put a bigger main and if the jib was replaced with a genoa say 135 or 150 the boat should not go way out of balance.

I'll guess that in the strong breezes you describe at 5.5 kts you are heeling quite bit. I would guess you need to get the boat to stand up straighter. With this hull length you should be able to get more than 5.5kts in a good breeze.

Get more people on the boat to the windward rail or reef the main...

I know nothing about these boats and the only image I found that shows the keel shows it very short. Is this boat ballasted in another way?
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Old 16-07-2008, 00:26   #4
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Oh - To further elaborate there are about 5 million ways to make a boat go faster and unfortunately there are just as many that make it go slower :-(

There are also lot's of different ways to relieve weather hem - My advice is just one of them.

Our boat (7.7 meters) had the original jib replaced with a furling 150 gennie and it stays in perfect balance.
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Old 16-07-2008, 11:54   #5
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Thanks for all the help.the keel is 2238 lbs including the swing keel
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Old 16-07-2008, 12:01   #6
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A larger head sail should give you more lee helm. Try feathering your main or putting in a reef to reduce heal. An overpowered boat will have weather helm and go slower as the rudder stalls. Let the boat stand up and it will go faster and have a more comfortable ride.
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Old 16-07-2008, 13:27   #7
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Aloha Dennis,
The next time you go out in a good breeze try a few things when the weather helm starts.
First, sheet out the sails so they are nearly to the point of luffing. When the boat stops heeling quite so much then you should have reduced weather helm and the speed of your boat should increase.
Second, when the heeling starts haul down on the boom vang and point into the wind a little more and see if that helps. If you can't point into the wind because your course is not to windward then ease out your mainsail and see if that helps.
Third, if you've done all the above and your sails are adjusted just on the point of luffing and you still have lots of weather helm then put a reef in the main and see if that helps.
On most boats, the more you heel the more weather helm you have and the more your rudder acts like a brake. The point is to sail as flat as possible so adjusting the sails to do that is what your goal should be.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Kind regards,
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Old 16-07-2008, 20:30   #8
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<nod>

The goal is to reduce excessive weather helm. There are several ways to do so, but primarily they consist of reducing sail efficiency aft of the mast and increasing sail efficiency forward of the mast (while reducing drag and a few other minor details.)

Flattening the main, like Skiprjohn was suggesting, is one of my first suggestions. Depending on the rig, you may have some additional tools, such as methods of bending the mast. Your main may have a flattening reef, or a Cunningham, to adjust its shape. One thing a lot of people forget is to tighten the halyard on the main when the wind gets up, and to relax it a bit when the wind drops to light airs.

Be careful not to over-sheet the main. Adjust the trim of the fore sail(s) first, then let the main out until it's just about to luff, slightly soft in the pocket. Check the trim regularly by nosing into the wind a bit; both the main and fore sail(s) should luff at nearly the same time. An over-sheeted main will produce more heel for less forward motion.

It's not unusual for a boat to start slowing down if it has too much sail up. If you're beginning to lose speed while heeling too much, or you're wondering if you might need to reef, put in the reef.
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Old 17-07-2008, 00:04   #9
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Thank you all for your suggestions i will test it out this weekend
thanks again
Dennis.
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Old 17-07-2008, 00:18   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jouet 820 View Post
Thank you all for your suggestions i will test it out this weekend
thanks again
Dennis.
I hope you have a strong enough wind!

Keep it simple at first - in a strong wind:

1/ Main halyard tight - vang/kicker on tight - if adjustable backstay on tight
2/ Jib lead blocks forward
3/ Sheet out the main slightly
4/ Also sheet out the jib slightly - it may be backwinding the main
5/ If sails are luffing - shorten sail - main first

See how that works out.

FYI - With 1-2 on board we start shorting sail about 15-20 kts. With a full crew up to 6 we will carry full sail to 20-25 kts. We are a similar length to your boat.
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Old 27-07-2008, 15:28   #11
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Much better

Thanks guys I reefed the main and she sailed much better no weather helm and at 6 knots
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