Foam coring an old boat - insulation too

[DeepFrz]

Abrain, I'm sorry, I don't know if Home Depot sells the sheet product or not, but they do sell the pipe insulation. Maybe check around your area for Armacell products. Check the insulation companies. It seems to be available worldwide when I googled Armaflex lots of places showed up.

[jgbrown]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Cold is an absence of heat, so no. There will be insulation with different properties, of course, depending on what is being insulated, the surface(s) to be insulated etc. The nice thing about Armaflex (Volara I know nothing about) is it will conform to the hull nicely, is easily cut, can be easily removed later if need be, does not grow things, and I believe it is hypoallergenic.

Both are similar.
Nitrogen filled close celled foam, with some sound damping properties. Ensolite(blue camping pads people used to sleep on) used to be good but armaflex company bought them out. The reason I went with Volara was availability. I have samples of all of them though. Intended one day to actually test them side by side but the volara was available and suited the activity.

The anti- properties of armaflex are done with the addition of triclosan.

60 inch width sold by the foot worked great.
They have a new product I was thinking of using in high wear areas that is HDPE sheet bonded to the foam comes in many colors. In the end I decided to use vinyl or marine grade quick drying thin carpet.
I found when cut well the foam almost holds shape against the hull perfectly. The contact cement I was going to use was sold by the large propane canister normally but they have a smaller demo size canister which I bought for use on a large powerboat. Much easier to work with than spray cans though for a v berth and not skinning the foam the small spray cans are likely fine.

Hard to type on the phone sorry about organization and grammar.

[DeepFrz]

Thanks jgbrown, good info.

[Dsanduril]

I find this foamed PVC sheet to be really useful (although limited in color choice):

Foamed PVC Sheets : TAP Plastics

PVC Expanded (Foamed) Sheet - White Plastic Sheets

If you put insulation foam in between stringers you can take large sheets (comes up to 4' x 8') of the 1/8" and attach them to the stringers, giving a solid, easy to clean, quite durable surface finish. The 1/8" is pretty flexible and can fit most boat curves. For tighter curves a hot air gun can help in getting it to conform. Lots faster and easier than trying to glass something in place, if you don't need structural strength.

[bletso]

I have tried a styrofoam in the overhead but it will mold easily. I am now using an aluminized bubble sheet. Easy to cut and better than nothing. We have an inner skin (I use regular tile board) which is screwed to slats in the overhead and the joints covered by custom trim.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Cold is an absence of heat, so no. There will be insulation with different properties, of course, depending on what is being insulated, the surface(s) to be insulated etc. The nice thing about Armaflex (Volara I know nothing about) is it will conform to the hull nicely, is easily cut, can be easily removed later if need be, does not grow things, and I believe it is hypoallergenic.

The reason I asked is i once did an engineering project that required refractory insulation. It was for a furnace of sorts and the castable refractory I used was good to 2150 degrees farenheit. 4" of it was adequate to touch your hand on the outside of the furnace with it operating at ~1500 degrees inside. The product was like lightweight white cement and was mixed with water like you would cement to pour it. I've often thought it would be great pourable icebox insulation!

[jgbrown]

Probably kaowool. Fire bricks are similar and very light much more than normally expected. Not good for you if it gets in the air and fragile. I recall it didn't handle vibration well either.

For a boat though is hard to beat good closed cell foam. By the time you add enough reflectix cost is so similar and heat retention and noise damping so much better it's strange to use IMO. Makes sense in a hot sunny area, but needs an air gap to work properly to reflect radiant heat.

[Nicholson58]

The Armafaflex is a product we use in industrial machinery. Its good stuff. Importantly, it is closed cell foam so moisture/vapor does not readily penatrate. noise transmission is also reduced. We also use a variation with a thick vinyl skin. - not as flexible but durable and better noise reduction. The precaution is to make sure it is well bonded and that joints are well sealed. You would hate to have moisture get behind it and make the usual black slimy mess. Also, you might consider that a below waterline installation might trap water in your hull matrix and contribute to blisters.

[Zach]

Ventilate well if you use spray contact adhesive to apply... particularly the propane tank delivered variety.

Even with a respirator, without enough ventilation the solvent fumes in there will put you down. I've known a hand full of guys that are lucky to be alive, having been pulled out of boats after passing out using it to apply veneer.

I use a squirrel cage fan and blow air into the boat, but you also want a brushless motor. A boat full of fumes is a bomb.

Zach

[Abrain]

Tell me if this is a bad idea or not and why. I am looking for an affordable way to insulate so keep this in mind.

1.) I will apply an adhesive to the bulkhead then cove it with 1" Thick insulation.

2.) Next ill then cover the foam with epoxy and apply a fabric like hemp (instead of fiberglass mat)

3.) sand lightly and paint white.

All bulkheads that are curvy ill substitute the 1" insulation for smaller 1/4" and build them up to 1".

[Cheechako]

Bad Idea. It's a mess and you are destroying boat value. BTW.. no bulkheads are curved.
Is there a problem you are trying to solve?

[Abrain]

Wait what? Sorry I meant Hull not bulkhead . Why would the value of my boat go down if I insulate it?

Im frustrated this V-birth is got to get insulated soon its freaking cold outside.

[SabreKai]

I am currently rebuilding my boat, and it was styrofoam sheets behind plywood. Having removed all that and looking at the abortion that the builders created with the frames by scabbing on bits of steel here and there, have decided that putting battens back is going to be a real nightmare.

To that end I too am thinking of spray foaming the hull after its been blasted and epoxy coated, then putting a single layer of woven roving down with epoxy. Any place there is a fitting bolted on deck will be boxed off and left exposed. I can stuff the boxes with Styrofoam or Fiberglas insulation later.

I'm not so much worried about the cost, more like the weight and aggravation of trying to deal with the built in mess created by the builders.

[Cheechako]

Abrain, Well... if I understand this correctly, you've removed the nice ceiling strips (staving?) you are going to put cheap insulation product on and cover it with something like burlap/hemp. It's going to be a mess and likely to be very lumpy. when you paint it it will look bad. You could buy some foam insualtion and put it on there temporary and try it out before doing something so permanent.
I do understand your situation as I lived aboard up here in Puget Sound for quite a few years. Any insulation helps a bit, but realistically, the help is marginal from just insulating the V berth sides etc. Are you experiencing a lot of moisture? The type of heat you use can make that better or worse. Also, a common dehumidifier can help a lot. Do you have anything under the V berth mattress to allow air circulation? If you dont I imagine you have a pretty wet mattress. A small fan on low (computer fan?) can help push the heat from the top of the cabin down.... all the heat seems to stay up at the ceiling!
Good Luck!

[Abrain]

Moisture is not a real issue with our boat. We use a wood stove and electric heater. The boat had stingers that were rotted out with old insulation looked like the stuff coffee cups use to be made out of. S

So I either use a modern foam insulation or the bubble wrap stuff. I could also use stringers but I figured epoxy and cloth would be quicker - I can make it smooth by placing a plastic wrap over all of it and squeegeeing it out till smooth. Sot of like making a surfboard. Its gluing it to the hull that I am concerned with but spray foam does the same thing I suppose.

Today ill do a test run