Fixing My First Gouges

[justwaiting]

Originally Posted by minaret

You have a big learning curve ahead of you. ....... There are a hundred technical details I have left out, but ask away if you're interested.

Please keep asking him questions so that all of us can continue to learn from him. I have NEVER read a post by him on the subject of FG where i have not learnt some thing of value.

One of the other places where you might get real value is Tim Lackey's site. It will give you a pictorial time line on some of his restoration projects. linK provided below.
Lackey Sailing LLC | Restoring and Rebuilding Great* Boats

[cburger]

Highly reccomend you get John Gabriel's DVD


Professional Gelcoat Repairs Without A Mess By John Gabriel

[maine89]

Originally Posted by atoll

sounds like you got the the correct method,though you will normally have to use 2-3 layers of gel coat to get rid of blemishes on larger patches.

i,ve never used the west system kit or the 3m filler,so cant comment but would assume this is an epoxy based resin,and the 3m a polyester resin filler ,these will not be compatible.

reccomend you contact minerett as he is based in seattle and can probably reccomend products available in the usa in your area.

as discussed before for minor repairs use only polyester based resin products which cure in about 20-30 minutes.

epoxy based need 2-3 hrs at least and colour matching is difficult+hard to hand sand + not compatible with gel coat

would reccomend finding your local speacialist resin and glass supplyer who will stock everything you need to do the correct polyester gelcoat repair.

from them you will need.
acetone
polyester resin+catalyst
450gm cloth
fine body filler+catalyst
white gelcoat+catalyst
colour tint
brushes+scraper.

This isn't the first time I've heard people say that gel coat won't stick to epoxy. But why would West System say in their videos after using their fairing compound, and then putting in another layer of epoxy to go ahead and do the gel coat now?

This is why I'm confused Haven't done it before and then I read conflicting things.

[atoll]

they are refering to an epoxy based tint,or polyeurathane paint to cover the repair.

polyester resin/gel coat will not cure on top of fresh epoxy,nor will it adhere properly to any thing except polyester.

[atoll]

another point to note with fiberglass hulls,that need extensive gel coat repairs,and hence the confusion re epoxy and polyester repairs.

generally dings,scratches and gouges over a large hull area, and bleaching of the gelcoat are repaired with epoxy,then the complete hull is resprayed.

minor repairs like chips are touched up with gelcoat,sanded then polished to match the exiting gelcoat that is in good condition.

[maine89]

Originally Posted by atoll

they are refering to an epoxy based tint,or polyeurathane paint to cover the repair.

polyester resin/gel coat will not cure on top of fresh epoxy,nor will it adhere properly to any thing except polyester.

Alrighty. Are there any kits out there or specific brands of stuff I can buy then to patch the holes?

I'm at the boat now and going to start using the dremel and a gel coat kit (heard another positive review of it last night so I'm going to give it a shot) to fix the minor white gouges so I get some practice and feel confident in it. That way when I have a solid strategy for filling the larger dents I can know that once the whole is shallow enough I can proceed with the same gel coat steps I know I successfully did before.

Attached is a zoomed out picturing showing how large that deep gouge is.

[atoll]

either system will work fine! if you can get the colour right.

just dont mix! use either epoxy or polyester!

a pro would use epoxy,then respray the whole boat,
or polyester as it is faster and cheaper if only doing minor repairs!

[minaret]

I'll post some pics of old-school traditional poly repairs at various stages of prep here.

[minaret]

A few more-

[minaret]

And finally-

[minaret]

Sorry those aren't in order. I tried to post some pics last night but it just wouldn't let me. I'll try to go a little more in depth here.
What you are trying to do is a substantial project. Try not to worry too much about $150 bucks worth of tools-it's a drop in the bucket. By the time you are well equipped enough to do this work properly you will have spent substantially more than that, and a bunch of time. That's why most people take it to the pro's, we are already well equipped and experienced. If you want to avoid doing that, you need to become just as well equipped and experienced yourself. I could do this job in a week, but it will take you much longer. Don't get in over your head. Only do this if you want to learn how so you can repair and maintain your boat in the future. That is the only pay off, your boat is not worth enough for it to make sense financially.
Having said that, get rid of the Dremel tool. It is for homeowners and amateurs only. Go buy a 1/4" shaft die grinder in electric and some bits for it. Will actually be cheaper than the Dremel and much more capable of doing the job. Look at industrial supply stores. Also acquire some 1" roloc shafts and discs to chuck into your die grinder or a cordless. Get a proper 4" grinder and some 16 and 24 git discs as well. If you don't plan on needing them much, buy from a place like Harbor Freight that has cheap industrial tools. These tools will do the job right and more than pay for themselves in labor saved. You will also need a 5" random orbit sander, Porter Cable is preferred. These aren't cheap but are a basic and critical tool. That's several hundred dollars worth of tools which you absolutely must have to do this job right, and we haven't even gotten into materials yet.
You will need poly resin (iso), catalyst, a catalyst beaker, a yard or two of DBM 1708, a yard or two of 10 oz. CSM, some chip brushes and air rollers, pots and stir sticks for mixing, lots of sandpaper, Tyvek suits for grinding and laminating, a box of gloves, a respirator, masking tape and masking film, acetone, rags, a hard block for sanding, a spray rig to finish spray your gelcoat, and a whole lot of patience and hard work.
Much of what you pictured are large stress cracks. If you just V these out and fill with any filler, including epoxy, they WILL come back. You need to grind these out and fiberglass them. Post more pics and I'll give you a better opinion of what your looking at. Find a decent fiberglass supply store near you and stop shopping at west marine now. It will only bring you grief at great expense. These products all have very short shelf lives, and West marine doesn't sell enough to keep fresh product on the shelves. You cant tell the difference between good gel and bad just by looking. Don't gamble on it, it's too much work.

[minaret]

Oh, and WEST system will happily tell you that you can gelcoat over their epoxy but don't do it. I am speaking from a great deal of experience here. Don't mix resin systems, it will end poorly. And cure times for epoxy are generally overnight. Much faster to work in poly, and more than sufficient for this kind of thing.

[atoll]

thanks minaret! my sentiments entirely!

[minaret]

The gouge pictured is no big deal at all- just hit it with a die grinder for tooth, fill and fair with rage and/or evercoat, prep and gelcoat it. Easy. But the other pic of the transom shows a huge stress fracture. It's a classic fracture right at the corner of transom/hull, probably hit a dock or piling. That "spiderweb" of fine cracks almost certainly goes right through the laminate, or nearly so. If the hull is cored this could lead to saturation and delamination if the stress cracks go below the waterline (which they clearly do), and even above the waterline given enough time. These are what needs to be ground and glassed or they will return. The scratches and gouges that dont go through the gel or barely go through the gel can just be filled and faired without grinding and fiberglassing. Just to clarify.

[maine89]

Originally Posted by minaret

The gouge pictured is no big deal at all- just hit it with a die grinder for tooth, fill and fair with rage and/or evercoat, prep and gelcoat it. Easy. But the other pic of the transom shows a huge stress fracture. It's a classic fracture right at the corner of transom/hull, probably hit a dock or piling. That "spiderweb" of fine cracks almost certainly goes right through the laminate, or nearly so. If the hull is cored this could lead to saturation and delamination if the stress cracks go below the waterline (which they clearly do), and even above the waterline given enough time. These are what needs to be ground and glassed or they will return. The scratches and gouges that dont go through the gel or barely go through the gel can just be filled and faired without grinding and fiberglassing. Just to clarify.

Took a closer look at the "deeper" gouge in the bottom of the blue stripe today. Turns out is is already filled with something. That might not be a good thing if it is epoxy (likely) as far as gel coating it goes.

The setup you propose is really more than I can do at this time. I will be happy to learn all of that in time but this is my first season and buying the boat, summer slip in new england, and other repairs, transport to water, etc. etc. are keeping my plate quite full.

I just want to fix what could cause serious issues and leave the slight cosmetic stuff for next season. The gouge that looks filled is likely safe, the cracks that someone suggested might have been from a nail look a little worrysome because when I washed the sides they had some water in them and I imagine that could lead to issues with constant exposure.

Then there is the crack in the transom. Being on the water line is certainly not a good thing, but perhaps it can be filled for the time being?