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Old 04-10-2013, 09:27   #1
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Fill or Glass?

Hi everybody,

I am prepping my hull for Awlgrip and have a question for the group.

The bow, right around the waterline has apparently taken a slight beating over the years and has been filled with epoxy a couple of times to patch minor damage.

When grinding away the old epoxy and stress cracked, really thick gelcoat, I really had to remove a lot of material to get past all the damaged gelcoat and through all the cavernous holidays in the fiberglass layup.

I now have a significant amount of buildup to do to reshape the bow. There is a void around 1/2'' wide and maybe 1/2 inch deep running vertically about 6 inches below and 6 inches above the water line.

Should I sand a taper on either side and glass in some CSM?? or just use thickened epoxy to reshape this portion of the hull. I was thinking of using high density filler to provide more strength.

Please share any thoughts!

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Old 04-10-2013, 09:45   #2
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Re: Fill or Glass?

wow, do you know how thick it is there? I think you need to investigate, maybe drill one small hole to see. If that stem was maybe 1/2" thick and you ground off maybe 3/8".... not much left. In which case you need to fair the whole stem, and layup layers of glass around it. If the stem is quite thick still then I think I might still lay that up with glass first rather than all filler.
Guys like Minaret etc know better than me though...
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:53   #3
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Re: Fill or Glass?

that looks like a glass job to me too and i only use 105 on anything below the waterline.

gl.

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Old 04-10-2013, 10:16   #4
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Re: Fill or Glass?

glass with epoxy,then fill and fair
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:52   #5
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Re: Fill or Glass?

Looks to me like the hull was built in two halves and then glassed together. I think I'd want to add some more glass there. I'd be wrapping glass back a bit to add strength.
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Old 04-10-2013, 12:51   #6
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Re: Fill or Glass?

Concur on using glass and epoxy to fix. As Saltyhog says, the hull was probably laid up in two halves and glassed on the inside to hold it together. Very common construction method. Boat apparently suffered abrasion from contact with something. As you've found out, just adding filler and gel coat is a recipe for cracking when it gets too thick. Grind back on each side of the hull a bit and laminate in a patch. It's not really structural but needed to keep it from cracking and looking bad in the future.
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Old 04-10-2013, 14:02   #7
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Thanks, Very helpful!
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Old 04-10-2013, 14:13   #8
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Glass but I wouldn't use CSM use a woven glass and wrap it around the bow for more strength!
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Old 04-10-2013, 15:21   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
glass with epoxy,then fill and fair
I agree... No big deal.....
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Old 04-10-2013, 15:41   #10
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Re: Fill or Glass?

I agree with the epoxy but on other threads I have been hung out to dry, for stating that, by certain "pros" and big mouths. The fact that epoxy is 4-5 times stronger than polyester meant nothing.
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Old 04-10-2013, 16:12   #11
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Re: Fill or Glass?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
I agree with the epoxy but on other threads I have been hung out to dry, for stating that, by certain "pros" and big mouths. The fact that epoxy is 4-5 times stronger than polyester meant nothing.
A professional knows how to get things done quickly that will hold together long enough to get paid and how to work around their mistakes.

Most of the time that's adequate for a repair but not necessarily the best way to do something if you are looking at the long view.
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Old 04-10-2013, 17:22   #12
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Re: Fill or Glass?

The only gripe I have against epoxy is that gelcoat cannot be used over it but the OP is using Awlgrip anyways.
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Old 04-10-2013, 17:59   #13
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Re: Fill or Glass?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
I agree with the epoxy but on other threads I have been hung out to dry, for stating that, by certain "pros" and big mouths. The fact that epoxy is 4-5 times stronger than polyester meant nothing.


Why the unpleasantness? This case seems like a prime example of the sort of thing I was talking about. Everyone here, it seems, agrees this is not really structural but needs glass not just filler. If its going to be barrier coated anyway, and I'm sure it is, why spend twice as much time and money using epoxy in a place where it won't matter? Glass it and fair it in vinylester and be done in an afternoon. Using your reasoning the OP should vacuum bag carbon fiber on it, because its 8-10 times stronger, never mind the cost! That's just silly. Call me a big mouth or intimate I may not be a "pro", but I think you're just being a "jerk"! Poly has its place as I said before, and this is one of them.
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Old 04-10-2013, 18:39   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Why the unpleasantness? This case seems like a prime example of the sort of thing I was talking about. Everyone here, it seems, agrees this is not really structural but needs glass not just filler. If its going to be barrier coated anyway, and I'm sure it is, why spend twice as much time and money using epoxy in a place where it won't matter? Glass it and fair it in vinylester and be done in an afternoon. Using your reasoning the OP should vacuum bag carbon fiber on it, because its 8-10 times stronger, never mind the cost! That's just silly. Call me a big mouth or intimate I may not be a "pro", but I think you're just being a "jerk"! Poly has its place as I said before, and this is one of them.
Thanks, Minaret.

Why is epoxy more time? I understand the cost, but I'm using gallons of the stuff anyway.

I don't understand why polyester is less time.

I also have chunks out of the bottom of the keel thanks to Hurricane Sandy. I was debating epoxy or boatyard polyester resin. Also CSM or woven fiberglass, or try to layer them like the boat was made.

The boat will be barrier coated
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Old 04-10-2013, 19:04   #15
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Re: Fill or Glass?

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Why the unpleasantness? This case seems like a prime example of the sort of thing I was talking about. Everyone here, it seems, agrees this is not really structural but needs glass not just filler. If its going to be barrier coated anyway, and I'm sure it is, why spend twice as much time and money using epoxy in a place where it won't matter? Glass it and fair it in vinylester and be done in an afternoon. Using your reasoning the OP should vacuum bag carbon fiber on it, because its 8-10 times stronger, never mind the cost! That's just silly. Call me a big mouth or intimate I may not be a "pro", but I think you're just being a "jerk"! Poly has its place as I said before, and this is one of them.
You were the pro. The big mouth was someone else and I respect your opinion although not reciprocated. Why turn it into vacuum bag and carbon to prove your point. Epoxy sticks well and you know it. The OP's using Awlgrip, probably with an epoxy primer anyways. Twice as much money? That would be $20 of materials instead of $10...come on.
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