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Old 13-02-2016, 11:55   #121
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
. . . The solution here is to use the step down crimp connectors and put two wires in the large side and a single wire in the smaller side. If you need to join four wires, use larger connectors and put two in each side.. . .
FWIW, Ancor specifically allow this kind of connection.

I can't recall that I have a single connection like that on my boat, however. Where I need to tap into a circuit for something, I go back to the panel and connect it there rather than tapping into the middle of a cable somewhere.
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Old 13-02-2016, 11:58   #122
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
You could just solder it!


Actually it looks like you should secure it to a (non-conductive) bulkhead with a screw through the eyelet, tightened really tight.
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Old 13-02-2016, 12:25   #123
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

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Originally Posted by SailRedemption View Post
I'm not sure, I'll pop one open and see what the internals look like. I figured if they are not the best on the inside, I'll load the wires up with dielectric grease and maybe a little dab of some caulk once the wire is in. Better than the alternatives..

See more @ redemptiverepair.com
These Wago 222 Lever-Nuts are very rugged.
I just cut one open to see whats inside. Had to use a sheetrock knife and some small screwdrivers to open it up.

Here the insides.
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Old 13-02-2016, 12:30   #124
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

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Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post


Actually it looks like you should secure it to a (non-conductive) bulkhead with a screw through the eyelet, tightened really tight.
And then cover it with an insulating cover? Best practice is to not have any bare conductors other than in enclosures.
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Old 13-02-2016, 12:34   #125
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
FWIW, Ancor specifically allow this kind of connection.

I can't recall that I have a single connection like that on my boat, however. Where I need to tap into a circuit for something, I go back to the panel and connect it there rather than tapping into the middle of a cable somewhere.
My boat has six overhead light fixtures in the saloon, "daisy chained" from the factory. I wouldn't expect all those fixtures to be wired back to the panel and even if they were, you couldn't put six terminals under one screw (on a circuit breaker).

Different situations require different wiring solutions.
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Old 13-02-2016, 12:37   #126
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

To the OP, this may have been cover in the many previous pages but I skimmed and got lost in the debate on soldering vs. wire wrapping vs. vs. vs.

Good electrical connections are all about having the right tools and parts. That said there are a couple simple practices that can enable you to consitantly do this. Crimp connections come in two varieties, insulated and uninsulated. Both rely on a mechanical compression of the terminal to make a satisfactory connection. A insulated crimp is a oval shaped crimp that takes into account the plastic insulation on the terminal. A unisulated crimp uses a "U" and "pin" form opposing to push the metal into the wire, think large lug connection battery cables. If done correctly all connections are sound, if you are a marine electrician and have all of the correct tools that makes it all the easier. For someone who is not I would reccomend the following. Most of the connections you will make for small vessel DC items will be using 16g to 10g wire. It is much easier to mess up a insulated crimp than it is to mess up a uninsulated crimp. If you buy a good pair of wire strippers and crimpers, something like klein it will cover most of what you need to do. Can't emphasise enought the importance of good sharp wire strippers. There are connection solutions for just about every application including step size butt connectors, however they are not readily avaible everywhere. Two items that most harware and marine harware stores always have are ring terminals of various sizes and screw terminlas, buss bars and heat shrink. A good practice it to use uninsulated ring terminals and crimp as such then use a small piece of glue impregnated heat shrink over. You can remove the plasitc with a pair of pliers and screw driver of a insulated crimp connector if they are all thats availible. These connections are sound and very easy to repeat with consistancy, they also help eliminate the possiblity of moisture wicking into the conductor, just make sure the heat shrink comes all the way over the crimp covering the open end. Where ever possible avoiding butt splices is advised. A screw terminal connection or buss bar will insure you have the correct size mechanical connection and allow you to remove things down the road with out having to cut wires and re-splice. Sometimes you have to make a connection in a place that is wet or needs to be fully insulated, in that case the same practice of a uninsulated crimp butt connector with glued heat shrink over both wires is a very good easy to repeat solution.

Always take the time to evaluate if what you are doing is the 100% right and long term way to do it. The temporary instal that will get done right when you have time is about 99% sure to not happen.
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Old 13-02-2016, 12:39   #127
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

I agree, which is why I haven't confronted this concept before. On our smaller 20' boat I did a basic rewire (very basic because it's just nav lights, interior lights and a charging port) and every appliance was it's own run from panel to appliance (except the lights had been factory wired way back in the day so I could use the existing wiring).

On our new boat I have surprisingly come across two runs that I plan to split multiple "appliances" off of a single main line:
1) A run of 4 cigarette lighter style charging ports (not ideal technology I know, no intention of starting another war here, this is low amperage application) for charging phones, tablets and the like (so not no amperage, you charge two newer phones and two tablets and you're easily looking at 45+ watts).
2) A run of three (or possibly four) detectors in all off a single circuit: carbon monoxide detector, propane detector, and one or two smoke detectors (or none, can't decide, might just go with 9V smoke detectors for now).

Other than that, everything in the long range plans will be a pair of wires direct from panel (or sub panel, that needs to go in too) to one appliance only (heaters, VHF, AIS, refrigeration, drinking water pump).

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
There would be very few times in boat wiring where you would need to join three wires together. The exception would be interior lighting where wires might be run from one light to the next, to the next, etc.
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Old 13-02-2016, 13:06   #128
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
"I haven't sunk yet"
"I've been doing it this way for thirty years"

There's a tag line that I've seen somewhere:

There's the right way, the wrong way, and they way some guy has gotten away with.

I think this fits with several of the posts here.
Hey buddy, how's proving me wrong going for you?

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Old 13-02-2016, 13:07   #129
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

Thanks for the input, after sorting through all the debate I have adjusted my plans quite significantly.

So you prefer separate connector and separate heat shrink tubing over one piece heat shrink connector?

I was thinking with good stripper (get your mind out of the gutter!!) like the Klein 11063W:


and good crimper, either Ancor 703010:

.. or the FTZ 94130 Compass Marine recommends:



... then I could use the Ancor adhesive heat shrink terminals which are pretty readily available:


But will research bare terminals and heat shrink tubing some more... different style crimper though...

Main hope is, as always, to not have to redo anything... there's plenty do once without doing it again!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingscotts View Post
To the OP, this may have been cover in the many previous pages but I skimmed and got lost in the debate on soldering vs. wire wrapping vs. vs. vs.

Always take the time to evaluate if what you are doing is the 100% right and long term way to do it. The temporary instal that will get done right when you have time is about 99% sure to not happen.
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Old 13-02-2016, 13:21   #130
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

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Originally Posted by basssears View Post
...........
On our new boat I have surprisingly come across two runs that I plan to split multiple "appliances" off of a single main line:
1) A run of 4 cigarette lighter style charging ports (not ideal technology I know, no intention of starting another war here, this is low amperage application) for charging phones, tablets and the like (so not no amperage, you charge two newer phones and two tablets and you're easily looking at 45+ watts).
2) A run of three (or possibly four) detectors in all off a single circuit: carbon monoxide detector, propane detector, and one or two smoke detectors (or none, can't decide, might just go with 9V smoke detectors for now).
You can use piggyback connectors on the 12 volt outlets.



Wire the detectors like I mentioned for daisy chaining lights.
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Old 13-02-2016, 13:22   #131
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

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Originally Posted by ZipTie View Post
These Wago 222 Lever-Nuts are very rugged.
I just cut one open to see whats inside. Had to use a sheetrock knife and some small screwdrivers to open it up.

Here the insides.
Thanks for the picture, those do look pretty well made. Are those metal bits chrome plated something or stainless steel? Maybe take a file to one to see what's under?

See more @ redemptiverepair.com
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Old 13-02-2016, 13:22   #132
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

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Hey buddy, how's proving me wrong going for you?

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Several others have already done so. Go back and read the thread again.
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Old 13-02-2016, 13:32   #133
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

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Several others have already done so. Go back and read the thread again.
I'm asking you directly, champ.

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Old 13-02-2016, 13:49   #134
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

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Originally Posted by SailRedemption View Post
Thanks for the picture, those do look pretty well made. Are those metal bits chrome plated something or stainless steel? Maybe take a file to one to see what's under?

See more @ redemptiverepair.com
The Wago 222 Lever-Nut metal parts are hard to file and seem to be Stainless Steel with some magnetism to them. Maybe a SS304

Here is a Wago 222 under extreme conditions (120 amps)
You can see the Wago is fine but the wires are COOKED.

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Old 13-02-2016, 14:04   #135
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

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Originally Posted by basssears View Post
Thanks for the input, after sorting through all the debate I have adjusted my plans quite significantly.

So you prefer separate connector and separate heat shrink tubing over one piece heat shrink connector?

I was thinking with good stripper (get your mind out of the gutter!!) like the Klein 11063W:


and good crimper, either Ancor 703010:

.. or the FTZ 94130 Compass Marine recommends:



... then I could use the Ancor adhesive heat shrink terminals which are pretty readily available:


But will research bare terminals and heat shrink tubing some more... different style crimper though...

Main hope is, as always, to not have to redo anything... there's plenty do once without doing it again!
I would stay away from all the above tools for the reasons mentioned in the post.

cheeper model strippers or the single action ones like the top tend to be more prone to wear and inconsistancy, ***note unless you build panels for a living it is better to strip a longer amount and cut to length once stripped, you can test fit to ensure the correct length, and good set of strippers with sharp cutters will cut bare stranded wire evenly without making a mess. I don't really trust the ratching style crimpers for anything other than straight farels or stake ons used in panels, which would be rare on a small boat. I also tend to stay away from the DIN stye flat spring connection terminals as I have seen far to many fail IE wires pulled out.

These models are what I use at work, as long as you refrain from cutting things with current and things not ment to be cut with them they last a very long time, very sharp and the pivot point is more rugged than cheeper ones, which is how they tend to fail.

https://www.grainger.com/product/KLE...Stripper-4A855

https://www.grainger.com/product/KLE...AS01?$smthumb$


For crimpers this style is very good, same thing lasts a long time etc.

https://www.grainger.com/product/CHA...AS01?$smthumb$

I really like the heat shrink terminals pictured above they are a great way to go, but not always availible and if given a choice I prefer the uninsulated crimp.

For large crimpers 8g up to 4-0 a low cost off brand rotory index set is fine as they will most likely not be used much. You can do the same greasy sock trick as for large bolt cutters for the rig E-kit, to keep them protected and turnign into a rust ball. I bought a set from fishries supply
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