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Old 13-02-2016, 07:23   #106
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

I think the whole thing about the wire breaking where the solder joint and wire ends is a little hard to believe for me if shrink tube is used, which i feel acts as a strain relief. My panel folds out on a hinge 90 degrees for access. But as pointed out earlierABYC does not state that soldering is not allowed or bad...
11.14.5.7 Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit. If soldered, the connection shall be so located or supported as to minimize flexing of the conductor where the solder changes the flexible conductor into a solid conductor.

It seems to me that it's really not one way vs another. It more like..."this is the way I do it, so the other method is wrong". I crimp and solder. Until I see a reason to stop, I will continue to do so.
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Old 13-02-2016, 07:54   #107
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

The only problem with permanent splices is that after you replace the pump or depth sounder a few times you run out of wire. Then you have to make a long home run or add another splice to extend the wires.
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Old 13-02-2016, 08:36   #108
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
You need to learn comprehension my friend.
.
I comprehend just fine.
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Old 13-02-2016, 09:04   #109
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

Did you get the bigger 222 or the smaller 221?

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Originally Posted by SailRedemption View Post
Just ordered the 3 and 5 port ones off Amazon.. Probably don't need all 90 of them but what the heck it was pretty cheap and I need to join some 120v wires to one feed and also 12v. I'll pop one open and take pictures of the insides when I get them in. I'll post them up.

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Old 13-02-2016, 09:29   #110
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

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Did you get the bigger 222 or the smaller 221?
I have been using the Wago 222 (Grey ones) lever nuts for years now.
Just found that they make to 40% smaller Wago 221 (clear ones) so I purchased 25 of the 2,3 and 5 hole ones on e-bay to give them a try.

The newer Wago 221 lever nuts have the same spec., but are just 40% smaller

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Old 13-02-2016, 10:23   #111
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

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But solder done right is better than crimp. Crimp is recommended because anyone can buy a ratchet crimp tool and create passable work. Soldering is a skill that has to be learned.

Look at it this way:

A crimp is purely a mechanical connection. A proper solder jointed effectively welds the two prices together and proper heat sink and strain relief makes flexing and vibration a non-issue.

If you have the time and skill set then solder. If you're in a hurry and hanging upside down through a hatch then crimp away.


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The "welds" part isn't quite true. Welding melts both parent metals together and (to keep it short) may require softer welding wire or heat treatment for proper stress relief afterwards to prevent future fractures in the heat affected zone. The strength of the welded area is often stronger than either parent material and you'll often see zigzag welds on bulldozer buckets just for extra strength.

Soldering is simply melting lead or other lower temp. metal to help bridge an electrical connection. The mechanical strength of that connection is poor, thus the need for proper strain relief on the backshell of the connector or near the turrets or bifurcated terminals where the wires are soldered. If 2 wires are being joined, then they need to be mechanically twisted together, then the solder simply helps bridge the tiny gaps between and helps the current to flow. The exclusive use of stranded wire on a boat, even for 110v AC, is for maximum flexibility of the cable. Soldering that cable makes it a solid mass and removes that flexibility.


Yes, a properly trained technician like you can make excellent solder joints. How many people have your training and skill? Probably 1% of the entire population, perhaps 2 or 3% of boat owners. (just a wild guess.) Even if that number were 10%, that's an awful lot of untrained people out there soldering with lousy soldering irons, lousy solder, nasty flux, wicking that stuff up into the wire and living with a time bomb connection that looks OK from outside but is corroding their wire in that wet environment until the wire literally falls off.

It takes very little training or practice to properly crimp a butt splice or ring terminal or a battery cable, like you'd most commonly see on a boat. How often do you see a boater making up a 55 pin Canon plug or a 200 pin Amphenol? That's the type of stuff you and I soldered in the Navy, and I agree, solder is a great method for those.

So for Joe Yottie, with his probable skill level and the types of connectors he's working with, I think crimping is the better solution with a greater chance of him getting it right.
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Old 13-02-2016, 11:06   #112
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

This is a good few years old but maybe it has some interest. Only skimmed it myself but page 20, top right is the fault I've seen most - and I mean on many, many vehicles.

http://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/ats/TM-640160065.pdf

I think crimp lugs are fine but I also think the argument against the alternative - solder - is influenced by a number of things that may not be obvious to everyone.

As with most things commercial imperatives play a large part. Speed of production, lower operator training requirement, keeping costs down etc. etc.
Selling new technology into an existing market usually necessitates denigrating the old in some way and to some degree.

Once a generation or two of workers have been trained in the new cost-saving technology they are likely to believe that nothing they haven't been trained for can possibly be valid. Myths of the "dangers" of the old technology are perpetuated.

(Incidentally the pride these trained workers express and the respect they seem to expect/demand - remember, someone actually had to teach them how to perform these simple tasks - has always mystified me.)

The old saw is that the commercially perfect product is one that costs least to build, sells for most and dies the day after its warranty expires.
Anyone actually believe that's only a joke?

If you just got a great deal replacing your obsolete one-year-old mobile phone and bought the 5 year extended warranty then please stop reading two paragraphs ago.
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Old 13-02-2016, 11:43   #113
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

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Originally Posted by basssears View Post
Did you get the bigger 222 or the smaller 221?
The bigger 222 ones.. If want some I can ship them for a buck or two over postage? (:

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Old 13-02-2016, 12:14   #114
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

What kind of protection from salt water and humidity do these Wago connectors offer?
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Old 13-02-2016, 12:20   #115
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
What kind of protection from salt water and humidity do these Wago connectors offer?
None. If outdoors they'll need an enclosure.
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Old 13-02-2016, 12:36   #116
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

"I haven't sunk yet"
"I've been doing it this way for thirty years"

There's a tag line that I've seen somewhere:

There's the right way, the wrong way, and they way some guy has gotten away with.

I think this fits with several of the posts here.
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Old 13-02-2016, 12:42   #117
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

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Originally Posted by basssears View Post
So apparently I'm last to know that (per ABYC) I shouldn't be soldering my electrical connections... always thought of that as the bulletproof way to go.

So going to start using crimp style connectors, but have a question about the 3 way connectors to split a line off... they all look similar to this Ancor (Server Error


My question is, how are you supposed to insulate the center "lug" of these things so they don't cause a short? If I used this on the positive side of a circuit that center lug would be live and would short out.

Am I missing something? Can I only use this for negative side of circuit? Am I really an electrical idiot (don't answer that one)?

-- Bass
These connectors don't make much sense and I wouldn't use them. As you noticed, they can't be insulated.

There would be very few times in boat wiring where you would need to join three wires together. Most things on a boat are on their own circuit. Pumps, chart plotters, macerators, etc. The exception would be interior lighting where wires might be run from one light to the next, to the next, etc. The solution here is to use the step down crimp connectors and put two wires in the large side and a single wire in the smaller side. If you need to join four wires, use larger connectors and put two in each side.

Leave those three way connectors on the shelf.
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Old 13-02-2016, 12:45   #118
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

Another not so obvious problem with those 3-way connectors is the very poor connection made by the thin-walled center eyelet which, on many, is so loose you can rotate the terminals.
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Old 13-02-2016, 12:49   #119
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

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What kind of protection from salt water and humidity do these Wago connectors offer?
I'm not sure, I'll pop one open and see what the internals look like. I figured if they are not the best on the inside, I'll load the wires up with dielectric grease and maybe a little dab of some caulk once the wire is in. Better than the alternatives..

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Old 13-02-2016, 12:54   #120
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

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Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
Another not so obvious problem with those 3-way connectors is the very poor connection made by the thin-walled center eyelet which, on many, is so loose you can rotate the terminals.
You could just solder it!
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