Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-02-2016, 20:40   #91
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Mexico, working on the boat
Boat: Hallberg Rassy 35. and 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 7,922
Images: 5
Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by basssears View Post
Yep, I started this and do somewhat regret it... I thought I was getting to know most of the flame bait topics but this one snuck by me
Not sure if you have heard yet but a lot of former members here and some that are still here have joined Sailnet. They do not tolerate the single minded types.
__________________

__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"

http://wwwjolielle.blogspot.com/
Celestialsailor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2016, 21:09   #92
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Hailey, ID
Boat: Gulf 32 & Nimble 20
Posts: 281
Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

Good to know... I'm pretty thick skinned and like the Daily Cruiser email in my in box in the morning because I have a chance to see things I might be able to help with, as opposed to just coming on when I have a flame war to start (mono vs cat anyone?)

... but I could learn to remember to scan SailNet every once in a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Not sure if you have heard yet but a lot of former members here and some that are still here have joined Sailnet. They do not tolerate the single minded types.
__________________

__________________
basssears is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2016, 21:16   #93
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Orlando, FL
Boat: PDQ 32 DogHouse
Posts: 599
Ever used 3 way connectors?

Deleted my own post to not offend anyone.
__________________
amytom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2016, 21:37   #94
Registered User
 
Reefmagnet's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: puɐןsuǝǝnb 'ʎɐʞɔɐɯ
Boat: Nantucket Island 33
Posts: 2,678
Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amytom View Post
Deleted my own post to not offend anyone.


And I once had a fresh outta school mech engineer bend the rule like a banana in my prized and very expensive combination square whilst trying to reassemble it, much to my annoyance. Experience is the greatest teacher. Unfortunately some people have 20 years experience and others have 20 x 1 years experience.
__________________
Reefmagnet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2016, 21:54   #95
Moderator
 
Paul Elliott's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,509
Images: 2
Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

Folks, there are plenty of other forums and they all have their strong and weak points. I participate in several of them myself. But they all suffer when we attack one another. Some, like Sailing Anarchy, consider that an art form, but in spite of this you will find value. Sailnet has it's own flavor, and it's usually good. But this is the place I go first when I want diverse opinions -- some expert, and others just learning.

This discussion started out well enough, then sank to some pretty unpleasant name-calling. Can we please keep it civil? There are times to solder, and times to crimp, and ways to do each properly (and improperly). If you have a point to make please do it respectfully.
__________________
Paul Elliott, S/V VALIS - Pacific Seacraft 44 #16 - Friday Harbor, WA
www.sailvalis.com
Paul Elliott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2016, 23:07   #96
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,879
Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Elliott View Post
Folks, there are plenty of other forums and they all have their strong and weak points. I participate in several of them myself. But they all suffer when we attack one another. Some, like Sailing Anarchy, consider that an art form, but in spite of this you will find value. Sailnet has it's own flavor, and it's usually good. But this is the place I go first when I want diverse opinions -- some expert, and others just learning.

This discussion started out well enough, then sank to some pretty unpleasant name-calling. Can we please keep it civil? There are times to solder, and times to crimp, and ways to do each properly (and improperly). If you have a point to make please do it respectfully.
Amen!
__________________
socaldmax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2016, 23:31   #97
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Probably and anchorage or a boatyard..
Boat: Ebbtide 33' steel cutter
Posts: 3,026
Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SailRedemption View Post
Just ordered the 3 and 5 port ones off Amazon.. Probably don't need all 90 of them but what the heck it was pretty cheap and I need to join some 120v wires to one feed and also 12v. I'll pop one open and take pictures of the insides when I get them in. I'll post them up.

See more @ redemptiverepair.com
Some in depth testing here you might find interesting...
https://youtu.be/UsJffbx_l7E
I have a couple of bags of them, very useful onboard
__________________
conachair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2016, 02:57   #98
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: Van DeStat Super Dogger 31'
Posts: 6,523
Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
For others who are open to learning, here is an image of the cross-section of both over and under-crimped cable lugs. Proper crimping forges the individual conductors and terminal into a solid mass which cannot absorb solder. Heat shrink tubing is then used to seal the connector to the insulator.

I have heard this quoted many times but I have yet to see it in practice. I have crimped cables as big as about 1" diameter right down to 26AWG, tens of thousands of them. Using a wide variety of tooling from high end super expensive calibrated hydraulic bench crimpers to the simple (but professional) hand tools. I have run a calibration service for tooling. I have cut and inspected quite a few crimp connectors but I have yet to see "the solid mass" as so often quoted.

FWIW, have a decent inspection of these cut crimps. By that I mean with a 200x magnification stereo lab microscope (or better). I have done this a few times in the past when the opportunity has presented itself. Every time, it was possible to see voids - not many I agree but voids nevertheless between some of the strands.

It is very easy to quote or repeat the sales pitch from the connector / tooling manufacturers but it is way more instructive to check out their claims for yourself. Try it sometime!

It is the old story, don't believe what you hear or read and only believe half of what you see for yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
Easy. I'm a professional boat builder--you are a hack.
I am sure you are a very good boat builder and I have no reason to doubt your boat building abilities but why would you apparently suggest that the electrical / electronic professional folk who post here know less about crimping / soldering than a boat builder. The whole electrical trade is predicated around the joining of wires and thus soldering / crimping and such like are in their DNA.
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2016, 04:20   #99
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: [S]Hamble (Spring and Fall)[/S], Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 17,228
Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
I guess I'm doomed! Wait...I've been soldering on boats 36 years now
I think I already withdrew the comment a few pages ago!

I clearly got in over my head here. Like others, I had forgotten that this is one of those inflammatory topics.
__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2016, 04:57   #100
Registered User
 
rwidman's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Charleston, SC
Boat: Camano Troll
Posts: 3,868
Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by packeteer View Post
............ you can always learn something even if the writer has a different option
If the writer is wrong, there's a danger that you will believe him and learn something wrong.
__________________
Ron
HIGH COTTON
Sent from my laptop using Windows 7
rwidman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2016, 05:30   #101
Registered User
 
rwidman's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Charleston, SC
Boat: Camano Troll
Posts: 3,868
Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
............. I should also add we have a boat builder calling an electrical engineer a hack in reference to an electrical discussion. Kind of ironic, aint it?
I was an electronic technician. My boss used to say that engineers dream up things, technicians make them work.

What makes crimp vs. solder threads so amusing is that the "authorities" with their vast research and testing, have determined that crimping is the best way to terminate wire and cable ends, yet some people believe soldering is better in spite of this. It's almost like a religion.

Someone posted that they "don't need a pinheaded ABYC electrician telling them how to terminate wires". How's that for logic?

Nobody is going to change anybody's mind but it's fun to watch them try.
__________________
Ron
HIGH COTTON
Sent from my laptop using Windows 7
rwidman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2016, 05:36   #102
Registered User
 
Reefmagnet's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: puɐןsuǝǝnb 'ʎɐʞɔɐɯ
Boat: Nantucket Island 33
Posts: 2,678
Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
I was an electronic technician. My boss used to say that engineers dream up things, technicians make them work.

What makes crimp vs. solder threads so amusing is that the "authorities" with their vast research and testing, have determined that crimping is the best way to terminate wire and cable ends, yet some people believe soldering is better in spite of this. It's almost like a religion.

Someone posted that they "don't need a pinheaded ABYC electrician telling them how to terminate wires". How's that for logic?

Nobody is going to change anybody's mind but it's fun to watch them try.
You need to learn comprehension my friend.

I have never stated that solder is "better" than crimping. Do feel free to quote so if I'm mistaken. Excepting for the "pros" I have given to crimping, I have stated...

Soldered connections have their place.
"cold fused" crimping is baloney.
"gas tight" crimp connections are a myth.

Prove me wrong.
__________________
Reefmagnet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2016, 05:54   #103
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Orlando, FL
Boat: PDQ 32 DogHouse
Posts: 599
Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

But solder done right is better than crimp. Crimp is recommended because anyone can buy a ratchet crimp tool and create passable work. Soldering is a skill that has to be learned.

Look at it this way:

A crimp is purely a mechanical connection. A proper solder jointed effectively welds the two prices together and proper heat sink and strain relief makes flexing and vibration a non-issue.

If you have the time and skill set then solder. If you're in a hurry and hanging upside down through a hatch then crimp away.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
amytom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2016, 05:58   #104
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 3,774
Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by four winds View Post
Can you briefly describe the type of test or methodology?
The samples were mounted in a vertical spindle and rotated such that small flexation was cause each time around. This was not forced on the splice but simple transmitted to a 6" length of wire. I was working with 22 ga to 14 ga, since it is the transition that interests me.

The result was that the wires always failed at the end of the shrink wrap. Pretty obvious. Without the shrink wrap, results varied, but there was really no statistically significant difference between solder and crimp... and I'm a crimping guy most of the time.

Interestingly, the wire nut did better than solder or crimp in the absence of heat shrink. A lot better. Not that I am suggesting this as a good practice, just sorting facts.

---

I'm sure different vibration modes will give slightly different answers, but the bottom line is that whether or not you heat shrink is the important variable re. fatigue. I'm running corrosion tests--again, there are too many variables, and I expect differences to be subtle.

The big difference is that crimped connections stay together when overheated, whereas solder connections depend on specific wrapping methods which sometimes make for bulky splices. Not sure what I think about that. Code being what it is, the answer is simple most of the time.

But what about very small wires?
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing
https://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2017/01/the-book-store.html
"Keeping a Cruising Boat for Peanuts"
"Faster Cruising for the Coastal Sailor"
thinwater is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2016, 06:14   #105
Registered User
 
four winds's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wandering the US Gulf Coast
Boat: 78 Pearson323 Four Winds
Posts: 2,039
Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

Thanks, thinwater. But I wanted to guess before you revealed the results.

Now no one will believe my choices were, the wire nut and at the end of the shrink wrap. Should have been brave enough to post it.
__________________

__________________
Life begins at the waters edge.
four winds is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ST50 SeaTalk connectors scotte Marine Electronics 4 14-09-2016 11:36
Have you ever intentionally NOT used GPS on extended offshore passage? sneuman Navigation 15 17-06-2011 11:45
Anyone Ever Used Stalocks for Rigging ? w1651 Health, Safety & Related Gear 10 26-01-2011 07:02
Solar inline waterproof connectors Rangiroo Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 1 06-02-2008 19:18
SUPERTHERM multiceramics coating - anyone ever used it? WHIZBANG Construction, Maintenance & Refit 0 31-01-2007 13:33


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:36.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.