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Old 31-01-2016, 12:05   #16
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

I've never understood the advice to not solder on boats because of vibration. I do understand how a weak spot is created where the wire exits the insulation however.

To avoid this is simple. Trim the insulation and twist the wire end well. Then wick some solder up into the insulated wire. Some flux here helps the wicking and heat buildup of the insulation. This creates a well supported wire ready for crimping, that the end of which can be formed to best match the final position.

Then crimp with a good tool. After this apply the iron again and maybe another tiny bit of solder if needed. And finally a high quality heat shrink that covers the crimp area and the wire up to where the wicked solder reaches.

The result is a strong mechanical connection with very low resistance that resists corrosion.

This is how the USAF taught me to do it and have done many hundreds of connections on F4 and B52 aircraft in another life. Considering that aircraft endure considerable vibration it seems this method would work well on boats, too.

Also, having built several complete wiring harnesses on car and bike restorations these methods have served me well. And continue to do so today in the boating chapter of my life.
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Old 31-01-2016, 12:09   #17
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by basssears View Post
So apparently I'm last to know that (per ABYC) I shouldn't be soldering my electrical connections... always thought of that as the bulletproof way to go.

So going to start using crimp style connectors, but have a question about the 3 way connectors to split a line off... they all look similar to this Ancor (Server Error


My question is, how are you supposed to insulate the center "lug" of these things so they don't cause a short? If I used this on the positive side of a circuit that center lug would be live and would short out.

Am I missing something? Can I only use this for negative side of circuit? Am I really an electrical idiot (don't answer that one)?

-- Bass
I prefer terminal blocks with positive and negative seperated. Each wire is sized correctly and I can troubleshoot much easier this way. You can also match up colors and labelling better. With 3 ways its difficult to know whats connected without following all the runs. With terminal blocks you can add and remove wiring in a more consistent manner.

I've removed the very few 3 way connectors i've found on our Liberty 458. The PO did a great job of wiring and routing. In fact I consider 3 ways lazy and bad practice.

If you use a proper crimping tool and good crimp terminals you end up with a very good joint and connection. Done right crimps are the preferred method in automotive, motorsport and aerospace connectors.

Many ham radio traditionalists will solder but these guys tend to be experienced. The problem with soldering is its difficult to guarantee consistency. With crimps consistency is determined by the connector and crimp tool. Most of the human (idiot factor or variance) is removed.

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Old 31-01-2016, 12:11   #18
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

Electrical tape around the center part of the connector


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Old 11-02-2016, 05:23   #19
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

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Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
Just use a large enough butt splice connector. On one side, strip the single wire twice as long as usual and double it over on itself to better fill the connector.
I have always figured the ABYC wouldn't like 2 wires on one side of a crimp either?

But I would definitely do that before I used one of those crazy propeller looking crimps!
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Old 11-02-2016, 05:39   #20
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

The argument against soldered joints on boats is complete Polux in my humble opinion.
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Old 11-02-2016, 06:02   #21
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by basssears View Post
So apparently I'm last to know that (per ABYC) I shouldn't be soldering my electrical connections... always thought of that as the bulletproof way to go.

So going to start using crimp style connectors, but have a question about the 3 way connectors to split a line off... they all look similar to this Ancor (Server Error



-- Bass
Just because some pencil-head in ABYC says we shouldn't solder doesn't mean they are right. What possible explanation do they give for that gem? I crimp, solder and shrink insulate my connectors. I have never had a problem and my boat does not sit safely in a slip. How can just crimping with that stupid hard plastic sheath be better?
From what I've seen over the years, in other peoples boats, is over time oxidization creeps in the crimped area slowly and starts creating a high resistance to the connection. One would deduct that a solder joint is impenetrable. I'm sure the guru's at ABYC had some other boatless pencil head agency do a one week study and came away with a do all end all conclusion.
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Old 11-02-2016, 06:07   #22
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

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Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
A field-soldered connection is inferior to a crimped connection, largely due to failure under vibration.
I would love to see a study proving this. Besides, other than the engine on a boat where does vibration come into the picture?
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Old 11-02-2016, 06:12   #23
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

The superiority of crimped vs soldered is widely recognized throughout the yacht and aerospace industries, even though many hacks don't understand why.
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Old 11-02-2016, 06:17   #24
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Ever used 3 way connectors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Just because some pencil-head in ABYC says we shouldn't solder doesn't mean they are right. What possible explanation do they give for that gem? I crimp, solder and shrink insulate my connectors. I have never had a problem and my boat does not sit safely in a slip. How can just crimping with that stupid hard plastic sheath be better?
From what I've seen over the years, in other peoples boats, is over time oxidization creeps in the crimped area slowly and starts creating a high resistance to the connection. One would deduct that a solder joint is impenetrable. I'm sure the guru's at ABYC had some other boatless pencil head agency do a one week study and came away with a do all end all conclusion.
It is well proven that a proper crimp is impervious to corrosion via the crimp. But if one uses "stupid hard plastic sheath" connectors from the discount tool store crimped with the equally stupid crimp tool that sells for $5 then soldering is perhaps better than crimping.

Soldering creates a fulcrum point where the solder ends. This is the point at which the wires are forced to bend and will be where the wires break.

Do an experiment for yourself. Properly crimp on a heat sealed terminal with the correct tool. To the other end of the same wire solder on one of those terminals with no insulation (or the hard plastic kind). Now wiggle the connector back and forth on the soldered end until the wire breaks off. Next see how long it takes to break off the crimped end. If you do the experiment correctly you will become tired or bored or both and never break the wire off the crimped end.
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Old 11-02-2016, 06:21   #25
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

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It is well proven that a proper crimp is impervious to corrosion via the crimp. But if one uses "stupid hard plastic sheath" connectors from the discount tool store crimped with the equally stupid crimp tool that sells for $5 then soldering is perhaps better than crimping.

Soldering creates a fulcrum point where the solder ends. This is the point at which the wires are forced to bend and will be where the wires break.

Do an experiment for yourself. Properly crimp on a heat sealed terminal with the correct tool. To the other end of the same wire solder on one of those terminals with no insulation (or the hard plastic kind). Now wiggle the connector back and forth on the soldered end until the wire breaks off. Next see how long it takes to break off the crimped end. If you do the experiment correctly you will become tired or bored or both and never break the wire off the crimped end.
I think Maine sail did an experiment with this. He hung weights off of a wire that had been crimped. One was crimped and heat shrunk, one was just crimped, and one was just heat shrunk. The amount of weight a proper connection could hold was amazing.
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Old 11-02-2016, 06:40   #26
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

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Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
The superiority of crimped vs soldered is widely recognized throughout the yacht and aerospace industries, even though many hacks don't understand why.
If you're useless at soldering you probably should use crimps.

Sorry, did I make an unwarranted assumption about your abilities, skills or understanding???
Hope you weren't offended?
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Old 11-02-2016, 06:59   #27
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

When I worked in the motorsports industry, we used electrical connectors made by Wurth. They accomplish all three methods discussed here, with one (not so inexpensive) connector. You Crimp the connection and then use a heat gun to melt the pre-installed Solder and seal the connection the pre-installed Heat Shrink. Hopefully the link below works.

Crimp Solder and Seal Red Butt Connector | Crimp Solder Seal | Insulated Electrical Connectors | Connectors | Electrical | Wurth Site
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Old 11-02-2016, 07:00   #28
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

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If you're useless at soldering you probably should use crimps.

Sorry, did I make an unwarranted assumption about your abilities, skills or understanding???
Hope you weren't offended?
Why should a professional be offended by some hack's assumption?
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Old 11-02-2016, 07:16   #29
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

I think the anti-solder application is more from solder-filled battery terminal area, where a shorted 8D can melt the solder, than from the vibration angle.
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Old 11-02-2016, 08:45   #30
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Re: Ever used 3 way connectors?

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The superiority of crimped vs soldered is widely recognized throughout the yacht and aerospace industries, even though many hacks don't understand why.
Really?...Again unsubstantiated BS. I asked for proof or a study and you come back with some defensive immature rhetoric like "hack".
I work for one of the largest Aerospace companies in the world and I'm sorry, crimps are not used in this industry...nice try though. Let see...the world is flat because everyone in the pharmaceutical and plastics Industry says so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by transmitterdan View Post
It is well proven that a proper crimp is impervious to corrosion via the crimp. But if one uses "stupid hard plastic sheath" connectors from the discount tool store crimped with the equally stupid crimp tool that sells for $5 then soldering is perhaps better than crimping.

Soldering creates a fulcrum point where the solder ends. This is the point at which the wires are forced to bend and will be where the wires break.

Do an experiment for yourself. Properly crimp on a heat sealed terminal with the correct tool. To the other end of the same wire solder on one of those terminals with no insulation (or the hard plastic kind). Now wiggle the connector back and forth on the soldered end until the wire breaks off. Next see how long it takes to break off the crimped end. If you do the experiment correctly you will become tired or bored or both and never break the wire off the crimped end.
I totally agree with you on those funkie plastic crimps. The problem is...that is what I always see on owners boats when I'm asked to look at something.
As far as your test...please note when I crimp, solder and shrink, I make the shrink tube at least twice as long as the crimp tube length. This relieves stress point bending.
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