Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 24-05-2012, 17:33   #1
Registered User
 
Reefmagnet's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: puɐןsuǝǝnb 'ʎɐʞɔɐɯ
Boat: Nantucket Island 33
Posts: 2,735
Epoxy or Vinyl Ester resin?

Hi all, over this coming weekend I need to rebuild the engine beds of my Vega in order to install the new engine. Both original beds have had to be ground down a bit as the original steel plates had corroded and expanded and a bit of oil from the old engine had worked it's way through the old fibreglass. I'm planning on using a combination of thickened resin and some recycled core material from the cockpit floor (which looks a bit like polyethylene breadboard material though it may not actually be polyethylene) to build up and shape the beds to a height for bedding the new steel plates. Once I set the plates I'm going to gusset and fillet as required before covering the whole lot in 3 or 4 layers of fibreglass.

Normally I would use epoxy, but I want to make a new diesel tank as well so vinyl ester will be a cheaper option. From those that know, will vinyl ester be up to the job?
__________________

__________________
Reefmagnet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2012, 17:58   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: ontario canada
Boat: grampian 26
Posts: 1,743
Re: Epoxy or Vinyl Ester resin?

Ask Mr. Google.
__________________

__________________
perchance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2012, 18:20   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: Epoxy or Vinyl Ester resin?

polyester or vinylester stould be finejust make sure you grind out well to remove any paint and greasy deposits,clean with acetone and degreaser,then grind again so that you are laminating direct to raw fiberglass.

i use a mix of resin and micro balloons to build up fillets and thick marine ply under the bearing surfaces,then laminate on top.

it is also usefull to make a template that corresponds with the engine mounts,that aligns with the prop shaft to get the engine beds exact.
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2012, 18:29   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: Epoxy or Vinyl Ester resin?

if bedding in steel epoxy probably would be better,and nothing will stick to polyethelene board,so it is useful for moulding that will be removed,but not as part of the structure,ply or hard wood is better.

polyester will not cure on some types of epoxy,so better not to mix resin systems.
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2012, 19:33   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 25
I agree with Atoll, don't mix systems. In fact, stick with the SAME manufacture of chemicals to insure compatibility.
__________________
ljsailing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2012, 20:46   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Boat:Old Saybrook, Connecticut - Me: Danbury CT
Boat: 1973 Contest 33
Posts: 23
Re: Epoxy or Vinyl Ester resin?

West Systems claims that Epoxy gives better adhesion. Another option to build up to the correct height is to purchase structural FRP fiberglass sheet or bar material and cut to size, prep and glue with Epoxy. I use this material and am very happy with the results. You can drill it and tap it or lag bolt into it if you have enough depth and room for an adequate number of fasteners. Not sure of pullout strength for engine mounts.

For fiberglass FRP sheet material try McMaster Carr.

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/west-system-epoxy-for-fiberglass-repair/
__________________
Captmorpheus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2012, 21:08   #7
Registered User
 
Nicholson58's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Live aboard
Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283
Posts: 3,466
Images: 83
Re: Epoxy or Vinyl Ester resin?

suggest you check UScomposites for allof your resin and filler needs. I like their 635 epoxy thin resin. There is no amine blush and the low viscosity gives very good wet-out. Working time is long. I found their prices lower than West by a lot and I prefer their products. Fiberglass , Epoxy , Composites, Carbon Fiber - U.S. Composites, Inc.
__________________
Nicholson58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2012, 22:16   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sailing the Caribbean
Boat: Switch 51
Posts: 1,498
Re: Epoxy or Vinyl Ester resin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by perchance View Post
Ask Mr. Google.
Now that is a response not even worth making.
__________________
SVNeko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2012, 23:04   #9
Registered User
 
Reefmagnet's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: puɐןsuǝǝnb 'ʎɐʞɔɐɯ
Boat: Nantucket Island 33
Posts: 2,735
Re: Epoxy or Vinyl Ester resin?

Thanks guys. Unfortunately I won't have much choice in the brand or type of resin I can buy around these parts. And for the record I have used google, and I know that vinyl ester is better then polyester but not as good as epoxy. I would use epoxy for this job, but because of the need for the fuel tank, I only want to use one type of resin for both. I was looking for opinions on a specific application. Probably should have mentioned that the beds need to be built up about 2" if that matters?

And thanks for the suggestion atoll. I have a jig made of mdf to act as a locator and mold for the filler. This jig offsets 16mm from the minimum engine mount position. The plan is to use a 10mm thick steel mount plate with approx 3mm of epoxy/glass on top. This leaves an OFM allowance which can be shimmed out with some stainless plate if need be. I have already prepped the beds, but used a laser to align everything with the stern tube. Unfortunately I forget that you can't hang a jig off a laser beam, so its back to piano wire for attempt #2 this w/end
__________________
Reefmagnet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2012, 07:53   #10
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: Epoxy or Vinyl Ester resin?

for vinlyester or polyester the main thing is to grind out well and clean with acetone.
micro ballons can be added to either to make a filler similar to carbody filler.

i generally use ply under the laminate,then attach flexible engine mounts using m12x 10 cm coach bolts in to predrilled holes.

works great for engines up to about 50 hp
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2012, 08:23   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
Captain Bill's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the boat
Boat: Endeavourcat Sailcat 44
Posts: 2,313
Re: Epoxy or Vinyl Ester resin?

I need to do a repair to my vinylester hull and have been doing a bit of research into this subject. What I have found from several sources is that vinylester resin does not adhere well to aged vinylester resin. As my boat is 10 years old it qualifies as aged. I would assume the OP's boat is at least that old. My concern would be that as an engine bed, subject to torque and vibration, a vinylester based rebuild might not adhere well enough to the old resin to last long. I would go with an epoxy solution if it was me. My 2 cents....Change welcome
__________________
Captain Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2012, 08:30   #12
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: Epoxy or Vinyl Ester resin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bill View Post
I need to do a repair to my vinylester hull and have been doing a bit of research into this subject. What I have found from several sources is that vinylester resin does not adhere well to aged vinylester resin. As my boat is 10 years old it qualifies as aged. I would assume the OP's boat is at least that old. My concern would be that as an engine bed, subject to torque and vibration, a vinylester based rebuild might not adhere well enough to the old resin to last long. I would go with an epoxy solution if it was me. My 2 cents....Change welcome
true if you are laminating to a flat surface,but if he is using the existing beds as an anchor i cant see a problem as a money saving option.

epoxy is definitely the way to go but it will be expensive.
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2012, 09:13   #13
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,199
Images: 52
Re: Epoxy or Vinyl Ester resin?

A have done this job many times in vinylester or poly resin with no problems. A steel plate laminated over works great for mounting beds, but it can be a pain to radius well for glassing. This is my preffered method, sounds like you're very much on the right track. If building tankage as well I would go with vinylester.
__________________

__________________
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
epoxy

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:21.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.