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Old 30-01-2013, 11:52   #1
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Epfianes Wood Finish Screw up

I just spent the last 4+ weeks scraping, sanding, cleaning the main cabin and v-berth, she's a taiwanese build with heaps of teak -- no veneer here, finally got it to the point I was ready to finish and chose Epifanes Wood Finish gloss ....somehow in my reading a million different threads, reviews, etc. I got my brain waves crossed and thought I was supposed to rub on the first (thinned to 25% with epifanes thinner) coat

Apparently the Wood Finish product is more of a Cetol-y hyprid stuff (it went on really dark -- I was hoping it would be clearer, leaving the cabin brighter

Anyway -- rubbing it on was probably a mistake as I'm 5 days into the drying and it's still a little tacky and gummy when I sand, I did have the boat mostly closed so little air flow and the temperatures at night have been in the high 40's, though the days have been 60 - 70, I've been running a heater the last 36 hours and the temp in the boat is 70+ and today I put a fan in there to circulate the wood

I've seen some people mention a light sand (deal with the gummy-ness on the paper) will help the drying process? Or am I screwed and should strip it <gulp> again and go with the Rapid Clear product, followed by Varnish and not this "wood finish" product as I would prefer a lighter color

Thanks!
Brian
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Old 30-01-2013, 12:20   #2
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Re: Epfianes Wood Finish Screw up

Brian,

Perhaps a call to Epifanes for some assistance might be helpful. The north american distributor is located in Maine.

<http://www.epifanes.com>

toll free:800-269-0961
Tel: 207-354-0804

Good Luck

Roger
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Old 30-01-2013, 12:20   #3
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Re: Epfianes Wood Finish Screw up

only advice I have is: did you read the instructions on the container? Epithane is the only varnish I use now. for the interior, why use gloss? The rubbed finish would be better looking.
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Old 30-01-2013, 12:29   #4
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Re: Epfianes Wood Finish Screw up

Drying time is a function of temperature and humidity, as per the mfgr instructions. That particular varnish should have gone on clear and dried amber within 24 hrs at 65 degrees F, which is the minimum temperature at which it should have been applied.

Check the manufacture date on the can. Did you get this cheap in someone's bargain basement? That may have been a horribly expensive mistake.

+1 on questioning why you'd go with a gloss varnish for interiors. Ick.
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Old 30-01-2013, 13:28   #5
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Re: Epfianes Wood Finish Screw up

@ svtrio -- that was my first move, I called them before the application and then again yesterday since it was still tacky, the first tech I spoke too last Friday before application had recommended rubbing on the thinned first coat, but the person I spoke with yesterday said they must have been confused as to which product I was asking about since Wood Finish isn't generally rubbed on since it's much thicker. I had thinned it and seemed to rub ok, there aren't many runs or sags

they also recommended increasing ventilation since the temperatures were within the recommended range, so I added the fan and an oscillating heater....they seemed to think it would dry eventually but I checked a few hours ago and it's still somewhat tacky and gums the sand paper, from what I've read if it's too thick the finish that's below the "surface layer" will have trouble drying because the solvens can't evaporate, which makes sense -- so I'm thinking about doing a light 220 sanding to thin/break the surface layer and hopefully allow the the finish to properly dry, their data sheet said tack free in 2h!

to the peanut gallery suggestions on not using gloss on the interior, it's recommended by every manufacturer and standard practice for build coats as gloss contain more solids which makes them harder, then using a Matte/Satin for the desired look -- basically Matte or Satin finishes have a flattening agent which is made from solvents that makes the finish last scratch resistent...



this was the first coat of a planned schedule of 6 coats gloss, two coats matte, but now I'm wishing I used rapid clear for the build for coloration -- though I guess this is burmese teak which is darker anyway, anyway hopefully it will dry by tomorrow, if not -- this weekend I'll have to strip it

I was hoping to get suggestions in this thread of way to strip an uncured layer of varnish or if there are any other tricks to encourage drying in a thick coat, will a light sand do any good?

I've heard steel wool and mineral spirits will clean it up pretty well, followed by another 220 sand
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Old 30-01-2013, 14:03   #6
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Re: Epfianes Wood Finish Screw up

Brian,

Rather than sand the varnish while it is not fully dry, I suggest just waiting. With six coats planned and wanting to get the job done, that might be a bit trying.

Based on my own experience with putting multiple coats of Captain's Flagship glossy varnish on the interior of my boat, sanding too early resulted in an uneven finish that ultimately required me to sand the surface again. In addition to the extra step, I also removed more of the varnish than desired. I was in too much of a hurry.

Patience.
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Old 30-01-2013, 22:30   #7
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Re: Epfianes Wood Finish Screw up

Next time you are going to coat in low temps, use some Japan Drier.
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Old 31-01-2013, 00:58   #8
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Re: Epfianes Wood Finish Screw up

Is Japan Dryer still available?? I used the last of my last QT and was told it was no longer made ?? Sure would love some ! Miss it
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Old 31-01-2013, 03:40   #9
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Re: Epfianes Wood Finish Screw up

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobconnie View Post
Is Japan Dryer still available?? I used the last of my last QT and was told it was no longer made ?? Sure would love some ! Miss it

I'll figure out where we get it and post the source. A qt. does last a long time. I'm pretty religious about using it for traditional varnish and enamel, but low temps and high humidity are the norm here. It really helps with varnish, but I never use it on a final coat. Makes it too hot. I've been told its no longer made before as well, but it is.
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Old 31-01-2013, 03:47   #10
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Re: Epfianes Wood Finish Screw up

Yeah, just google it. It's all over these days apparently, they have it at Lowes. Stay away from the blue stuff with Cobalt in it, you want the kind with methyl ethyl ketone oxime additive and zirconium or zinc. I'll get a brand name.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:24   #11
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Re: Epfianes Wood Finish Screw up

G'day, mate. Based on our experience, based on the timeframe and your efforts with the heaters to increase the temperature, if the varnish is still tacky, we would start over. FYI, we use high quality foam brushes for all coats.

We also have successfully used gloss varnish on the interior for the build coats and finish off with the satin version.

On the topic of drying agents, we were advised by the techincal professionals that they tend to cause one part varnishes to be more brittle. We favor using one part varnishes to help repair dings and scratches using a feathering technique. I not saying two part varnishes don't have their advantages, but we just prefer the single part, less brittle varnishes for the ease of maintenance.

We are also firm believers in a light scuffing between coats. We now just use 220 to sand for the 1st application when doing our maintenance coats. We then use a scuff pad on the following coats.

If you get a chance, let us know how things turned out. Cheers.
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Old 01-02-2013, 13:37   #12
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Re: Epfianes Wood Finish Screw up

I haven't used the Wood Finish much but 25% seems like a lot of thinning for it. Was the tech OK with that?

+1 on Japan Dryer - especially for build coats in damp/cool conditions. Use only a little (I find even 1/4 ounce per quart makes a real difference).

I got mine from Jamestown Distributors:

Japan Drier
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Old 01-02-2013, 13:46   #13
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Re: Epfianes Wood Finish Screw up

Japan Dryer..... You learn something everyday.
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Old 01-02-2013, 14:12   #14
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Re: Epfianes Wood Finish Screw up

I've used Epifanes for my exterior handrails and I thought it turned out great. It sure didn't take more than a day (24hrs) to be dry. Maybe a few hours it was still tacky. I first did 50/50 with mineral spirits then the next few coats a little more varnish then did straight varnish on the last couple coats. I thought it all turned out pretty good.
Here's the first coat going on my handrails: Rhapsody: First Varnish

After additional coats: Rhapsody: Varnish Part... (Nevermind)
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Old 01-02-2013, 15:42   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailr69
only advice I have is: did you read the instructions on the container? Epithane is the only varnish I use now. for the interior, why use gloss? The rubbed finish would be better looking.
Totally agree. I used the Epifanes Rubbed Effect everywhere inside. Results are awesome.
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