Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 15-04-2016, 09:51   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Seattle
Boat: '76 Bristol 27
Posts: 174
Engine removal in water - Ideas on lifting points

Hey everyone!

Its time, I've finally secured a location to work on my inboard diesel to hopefully bring it back alive. Its a Perkins M20.

I've decided I will go with using the mast/boom as a make shift crane to lift the engine out of the companion way and onto the dock where I'll have a dolly sitting to drag it up to the truck.

The question i'm trying to figure out right now is where should the lifting points be on the engine? I am going to be disconnecting the shaft from the transmission and hauling the tranny out with the block unless its too big.

I've removed the head, alternator, heat exchanger, and water pump">raw water pump and have drained all fluids(minus tranny fluids). I'll be trying to remove the starter from it as well, however now that the head is off, the one lifting point that I had is no longer.

Does anyone have any recommendations on how I should go about lifting a stripped down engine?

As for the lifting setup, I will be keeping the topping line at the end of the boom tight, while running the halyard to the lifting point on the boom and keeping that tight as well. I'll wrap the boom with some rope and mount a 1ton chain hoist from this point. Once everything is cranked down, Ill lift the engine out, but first will crank up the weight to see how everything is holding. If all is good, we'll jack up as far as possible, and hopefully get above the companion roof top then swing over to dock to set down. If that is not possible, we'll just lift up and pull it into the cockpit and inch our way out on the boom until we can swing it over.

My biggest conundrum is figuring out lifting points that I can use on the engine. I have excess chain that i can cut/use if needed.
__________________

__________________
chowdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2016, 10:24   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Re: Engine removal in water - Ideas on lifting points

I would think that with what you've stripped off the oil pan would be able to handle a strap around it for lifting. Nylon tow straps are pretty tough. Have you removed the mounting legs? That's another place you can wrap strap around to use for lifting.
__________________

__________________
John
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2016, 10:31   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
Sailmonkey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: '76 Allied Seawind II, 32'
Posts: 5,766
Re: Engine removal in water - Ideas on lifting points

I'd buy two eye nuts and screw them into the head bolt holes


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
Sailmonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2016, 10:40   #4
Registered User
 
pesarsten's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: St Pete
Boat: Sabre 34
Posts: 461
Re: Engine removal in water - Ideas on lifting points

I have used old head bolts to secure a length of chain, usually with some thick washers to form a lifting bridle. Do not use the bolts that you will use for the head as they will likely be bent after the lifting. Use common sense and don't lift if the rig doesn't look secure. There is a tool built for adjusting the balance point when lifting, it might be worth while to pick one up as it will be even more handy when putting the engine back in.
__________________
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
pesarsten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2016, 10:43   #5
Registered User
 
pesarsten's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: St Pete
Boat: Sabre 34
Posts: 461
Thumbs up Re: Engine removal in water - Ideas on lifting points

Here is a link to the lifting bar

Super price on ATD Tools 7489 at ToolTopia.com

Paul
__________________
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
pesarsten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2016, 12:46   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Seattle
Boat: '76 Bristol 27
Posts: 174
Re: Engine removal in water - Ideas on lifting points

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiprJohn View Post
I would think that with what you've stripped off the oil pan would be able to handle a strap around it for lifting. Nylon tow straps are pretty tough. Have you removed the mounting legs? That's another place you can wrap strap around to use for lifting.
Great idea! I haven't pulled the mounting legs off, i was planning on just unbolting the engine mounts from the boat and leaving the plates attached to the engine.

As for the strap method, is it recommended to run 2 straps diagonal of each other so you have 4 points that are hooking onto the hoist?


Quote:
Originally Posted by pesarsten View Post
I have used old head bolts to secure a length of chain, usually with some thick washers to form a lifting bridle. Do not use the bolts that you will use for the head as they will likely be bent after the lifting. Use common sense and don't lift if the rig doesn't look secure. There is a tool built for adjusting the balance point when lifting, it might be worth while to pick one up as it will be even more handy when putting the engine back in.
When you say head bolts, are you talking the actual bolts that are securing the head, from top to bottom? Seems like if thats the case, lifting from this point would be quite nerve wreaking due to the washers potentially bending. I'd assume the the bolts would bend but would be more concerned about the washers bending upward and having the chain slip off? Maybe i am just under estimating the strength of the washers for when they distribute the load?


Quote:
Originally Posted by pesarsten View Post
Here is a link to the lifting bar
Super price on ATD Tools 7489 at ToolTopia.com
Paul
Much appreciated! I just checked Harbor Frieght and they have one of these for $30 that is 3/4 ton capacity. About $10-$15 more expense than tow straps but seems like this would make it a lot more secure and worry about not being centered would be eased.



On a side note, once this bad boy is out of the boat, we'll float much higher, and we will be able to clean out and repaint our nasty bilge. The previous owner or atleast one who had previously worked on the boat did not care about keeping the bilge oil free and somewhat clean. Depending if we can(and I sure hope) get the engine running, I'm thinking I'll probably build a cradle for a removable oil catch that lives below the engine to prevent future drips/spills to the bilge.
__________________
chowdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2016, 13:08   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,342
Re: Engine removal in water - Ideas on lifting points

considerations:
a) Often the end of the boom will not reach far enough to get the engine on the dock...will yours?
b) if you lift the engine from boom center, how will you slide it to the end of the boom once lifted?
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2016, 13:17   #8
Registered User
 
Hydra's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lorient, Brittany, France
Boat: Gib'Sea 302, 30' - Hydra
Posts: 1,229
Re: Engine removal in water - Ideas on lifting points

Keep in mind that the boat will heel when you swing the boom over. This could cause the boom going too far, with the engine dangling under. You need restraining lines to prevent an uncontrolled move.

Alain
__________________
Hydra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2016, 17:25   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Seattle
Boat: '76 Bristol 27
Posts: 174
Re: Engine removal in water - Ideas on lifting points

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
considerations:
a) Often the end of the boom will not reach far enough to get the engine on the dock...will yours?
b) if you lift the engine from boom center, how will you slide it to the end of the boom once lifted?
The end of the boom is plenty long to reach the dock when swung out over the side.

Regarding B - This is something I have been thinking about quite a bit since I believe that we will have to move the lifting point outward. The conclusion that I've come to is that I will need to hoist the engine vertically, then using brute force to pull it out of the companionway into the cockpit/just outside of the companionway entry. Once we pull it out, we can then lower it down onto some 4x4 that are strung across the cockpit seats. Since I'll have the engine mounts still on, I think I should be able to let the engine just "float" on these while we move the chain hoist and support cables.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydra View Post
Keep in mind that the boat will heel when you swing the boom over. This could cause the boom going too far, with the engine dangling under. You need restraining lines to prevent an uncontrolled move.
I'm not too concerned about heeling movement and uncontrolled swings. There is going to be 3 people so we are going to be able to keep it under control with preventer lines. The biggest concern I have is going to be getting the engine up and out into the cockpit. Once out there, if all else fails, the three of us can lift it out of the boat and onto the dock, though this may be the most ugly way to do it.

I'm also planning on running both spinnaker and the genny halyard to the bow to give some extra support. I may just do one to the bow and one to the opposite side that we are going to unload from just as a safety net.
__________________
chowdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2016, 17:33   #10
Registered User
 
Dsanduril's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: South Pacific
Boat: Outremer 50S
Posts: 1,451
Re: Engine removal in water - Ideas on lifting points

I've done what you describe a bunch of times. Once you get it up and out of the companionway you pull it aft and set it down in the cockpit as far aft as you can. Slide your chain hoist and halyard rig aft on the boom, pick up the engine and pull it as far aft as you can. Rinse, repeat until the engine is far enough aft on the boom that it will swing clear of the edge of the boat, then push it over toward the dock. You can take your jib or spinnaker halyard over to the dock on the opposite side (presuming there is one) and snug it up, that will help prevent excessive heel when you swing the engine outboard.

Have fun.
__________________
Dsanduril is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-04-2016, 04:09   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,447
Re: Engine removal in water - Ideas on lifting points

Chowdan, don't overthink this job! With all the things removed that you mention, it shouldn't weigh all that much.. 300 lbs?? Not that hard to just man handle if necessary, not likely to bend bolts, washers and your back! Just don't drop it!

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-04-2016, 04:26   #12
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,577
Images: 240
Re: Engine removal in water - Ideas on lifting points

Quote:
Originally Posted by chowdan View Post
... I'm thinking I'll probably build a cradle for a removable oil catch that lives below the engine to prevent future drips/spills to the bilge.
Oil-Only Absorbent Pads work well ➥ https://www.bradyid.com/en-us/produc...ads-and-rolls#
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16-04-2016, 09:26   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: North of San Francisco
Boat: Pearson 30
Posts: 46
Re: Engine removal in water - Ideas on lifting points

Should be no problem, get a short chain that you can slip a head bolt through end links. Screw in a head bolt at each end of the block so that it is balanced. Hook to your lifting device and your good to go. Sometimes I use a bolt through the chain near my lift point to help with the balance (tilt), lock it in place. Just be sure to screw the head bolts in deep, they do not need to be tightened, just deep.
__________________
NorthCoastJoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-04-2016, 09:30   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: North of San Francisco
Boat: Pearson 30
Posts: 46
Re: Engine removal in water - Ideas on lifting points

Forgot to mention, I always use new head bolts when ever I remove a diesel head.
__________________
NorthCoastJoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-04-2016, 09:45   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: West Coast FLA
Boat: 1978 Pearson 424 Ketch
Posts: 451
Re: Engine removal in water - Ideas on lifting points

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Chowdan, don't overthink this job! With all the things removed that you mention, it shouldn't weigh all that much.. 300 lbs?? Not that hard to just man handle if necessary, not likely to bend bolts, washers and your back! Just don't drop it!

Jim
I've done this many times with heavier engines, to both docks and waiting skiffs along side. Your lifting technic is sound. as mentioned earlier a bolt and washer through chain, in a head bolt hole, will work fine. standard washers are plenty strong for this job. I would suggest getting new head bolts for reassembly, as the old ones will be more likely to stretch, when re-torquing. in that you can use the old bolts for lifting. if you use a clevis hook on the chain fall you can adjust it on the chain attached to the engine to balance the weight. If the lifting point when the engine is not straight down you can attach a line aft to a brace some where and lift a little and then let it come foreword slowly. save the need for someone to hold it back with brut force.....a little safety. It's not much force, but it's nice to have the extra control.

good luck
Lance
__________________

__________________
tinkrman69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
engine, engine removal, lift, removal, water

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lifting engine on main halyard jalfrezi Construction, Maintenance & Refit 17 27-10-2015 11:42
O'Day 30 table removal and settee removal biker6977 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 2 25-09-2014 09:40
Lifting my Engine bcboomer Engines and Propulsion Systems 18 17-11-2013 14:08
Engine Bay Makeover - Rewiring - Including Engine Removal! blahman Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 52 02-12-2009 10:01
Lifting an OM636 engine counsellormort Engines and Propulsion Systems 7 16-10-2009 21:02



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:40.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.