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Old 08-02-2012, 15:46   #31
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Re: Emergency Engine Driven Bilge Pump

I really like the idea of those shaft pumps but the one draw back that I see is that the engine has to be in gear for it to work. If the damage is forward you won't want to be moving forward. Of course the pump will work just as well with the engine in reverse. That can have it's own problems. You don't need electric service for belt driven pumps with clutches. They are available with manual clutches as well as electric. I see John types faster than I do!
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Old 08-02-2012, 16:14   #32
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Re: Emergency Engine Driven Bilge Pump

I'm doing a re-power, and the new engine is a Beta 60, and we got it with an engine-driven emergency bilge pump running off one of the PTO's. Using the bilge/seacock idea won't throw much water, and if there is anything in the bilge you didn't find with your shop vac, you surely will kill your engine just when you really need it.
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Old 08-02-2012, 19:07   #33
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Re: Emergency Engine Driven Bilge Pump

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Originally Posted by HHNTR111 View Post
I'm doing a re-power, and the new engine is a Beta 60, and we got it with an engine-driven emergency bilge pump running off one of the PTO's. Using the bilge/seacock idea won't throw much water, and if there is anything in the bilge you didn't find with your shop vac, you surely will kill your engine just when you really need it.

Sounds like the way to go with new vessel.

Do you mind letting us know what the cost of the Beta 60 was with pump without fitting.

Thanks
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Old 08-02-2012, 22:29   #34
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Re: Emergency Engine Driven Bilge Pump

"and if there is anything in the bilge you didn't find with your shop vac, you surely will kill your engine just when you really need it."

Why does everybody assume that bilge water is more likely to kill an engine than ocean water? I've seen sea strainers blocked with sea weed, plastic bags and jelly fish, none of which are in my bilge. If the engine overheats, the alarm goes off and it's pretty easy to clean the strainer anyway. If the water covers the air intake on the engine, I lose it for sure. I'd rather take a miniscule risk of overheating the engine than sinking.

"Using the bilge/seacock idea won't throw much water,"
The 1-1/4" pump on my engine will move about as much water as a Rule 1500 electric. Even a little 3/4" pump on a small engine should just about match a Rule 500. on my little 28 foot boat I have two Rule 500s and one Rule 3500 electric pumps. An additional 1000 to 1300 gph from my engine pump is not insignificant. It cost less to rig my engine pump for emergency bilge pumping than it would to install a Rule 1500 with it's hose, switch and thru-hull.
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Old 08-02-2012, 23:17   #35
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Re: Emergency Engine Driven Bilge Pump

If these pumps had been sitting dry for a long time and were suddenly being used for the first time in years during your passage, you've learned something important about pumps. You can't let pumps sit for long periods and then expect them to work once you need them.

Conversely, if the circumstances described above do not apply to your situation, then losing four pumps in one passage is most probably a case of demonic possession. If this is the case, sell the boat immediately.
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Old 08-02-2012, 23:25   #36
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Re: Emergency Engine Driven Bilge Pump

or call in a priest
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Old 09-02-2012, 04:44   #37
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Re: Emergency Engine Driven Bilge Pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
"and if there is anything in the bilge you didn't find with your shop vac, you surely will kill your engine just when you really need it."

Why does everybody assume that bilge water is more likely to kill an engine than ocean water? I've seen sea strainers blocked with sea weed, plastic bags and jelly fish, none of which are in my bilge. If the engine overheats, the alarm goes off and it's pretty easy to clean the strainer anyway. If the water covers the air intake on the engine, I lose it for sure. I'd rather take a miniscule risk of overheating the engine than sinking.

"Using the bilge/seacock idea won't throw much water,"
The 1-1/4" pump on my engine will move about as much water as a Rule 1500 electric. Even a little 3/4" pump on a small engine should just about match a Rule 500. on my little 28 foot boat I have two Rule 500s and one Rule 3500 electric pumps. An additional 1000 to 1300 gph from my engine pump is not insignificant. It cost less to rig my engine pump for emergency bilge pumping than it would to install a Rule 1500 with it's hose, switch and thru-hull.
If you saw in my one post..I did say that power vessels with larger engines may see a bigger benefit due to thier larger capacity pumps.

My 135hp Ford lehhman only has a pump with a 1" intake and unless I'm letting her scream...not that much water is being moved...yes about the the same as a well installed Rule 500...but nowhere near a 1000 pump.

The average sailboat engine probably has a 1" or smaller discharge so I can only assume about the same.

So again I'll say that using an engine pump for an emergency isn't a bad idea (though in all the panic someone better keep an eye on it)...but you need so much more capacity than the engine pump on most boats it should be the last place to put your money and effort when buying and setting up bilge pumping systems.
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Old 09-02-2012, 05:24   #38
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Re: Emergency Engine Driven Bilge Pump

I like to recommend again because already earlier sid buy a auxilary petrol pump as a insurance, if you are really in trouble also you engine my die due to flooding so a idenpendent system will be allways better.
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Old 09-02-2012, 07:20   #39
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Re: Emergency Engine Driven Bilge Pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
I really like the idea of those shaft pumps but the one draw back that I see is that the engine has to be in gear for it to work. If the damage is forward you won't want to be moving forward. Of course the pump will work just as well with the engine in reverse. That can have it's own problems. You don't need electric service for belt driven pumps with clutches. They are available with manual clutches as well as electric. I see John types faster than I do!
Alas, as a centrifugal pump it won't work in reverse.

Carhop's and John's points about boat speed, actual flow rate and manual clutch taken.
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Old 09-02-2012, 07:50   #40
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Re: Emergency Engine Driven Bilge Pump

Upside if you put a tee in the intake. Easy to flush and winterize. Cheap. Can be used in an emergency to help pump the boat out. Down side you might suck up something into the pump if you dont have a strainer and thus kill the pump/emgine.
Have adequate working properly wired bilge pumps. Use the tee for winterizing and dire emergency.
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Old 09-02-2012, 08:26   #41
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Re: Emergency Engine Driven Bilge Pump

psneeld, I agree, emergency use only and diminishing returns the smaller the engine. I did it on my boat because I've about maxed out my electric pump space and I'd hate to see a pump not doing it's share in an emergency. I've even given some thought to quickly converting my maserator pump to a bilge pump in an emergency. That idea needs a lot more thought.
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Old 09-02-2012, 09:11   #42
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Re: Emergency Engine Driven Bilge Pump

Actually, a simple Y-valve and length of hose can convert the Lavac I own to a bilge pump. It occured to me that it might make a decent sump pump for the nearby shower sump rather than the Johnson 12VDC pump I was thinking of installing, but I realized I'd either need a pretty parsimonious shower experience, or a pretty big pan, or I would have to start pumping halfway through the shower.

(None of those conditions is a deal-breaker, actually. In tropical areas, I would prefer to keep the humidity outside and rig screens for a shower stall in the cockpit and let the grey water out the scuppers.)
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Old 09-02-2012, 12:27   #43
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Re: Emergency Engine Driven Bilge Pump

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Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
psneeld, I agree, emergency use only and diminishing returns the smaller the engine. I did it on my boat because I've about maxed out my electric pump space and I'd hate to see a pump not doing it's share in an emergency. I've even given some thought to quickly converting my maserator pump to a bilge pump in an emergency. That idea needs a lot more thought.

Don't forget the shower sump too if you have one!
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Old 09-02-2012, 14:19   #44
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Re: Emergency Engine Driven Bilge Pump

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Originally Posted by CFR View Post
I like to recommend again because already earlier sid buy a auxilary petrol pump as a insurance, if you are really in trouble also you engine my die due to flooding so a idenpendent system will be allways better.
The one big problem with these pumps is the gasoline we have now-a days. Leave the gas pump sit longer than 6 months and presto...clogged jets. When I worked at a yard in Kona, Hi., twice, boats which were taking on water at an alarming rate, after scrambling to pull the pump out of storage, it would not start. Even after running it dry. The idle and main jets in the gas pumps are really tiny. I guess if you ran them 2 times a month, it might be a different story.
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:03   #45
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Re: Emergency Engine Driven Bilge Pump

Someone on another thread suggested getting a mains powered submersible pump... you could then hook that up to your Honda generator (which should get used enough for you to be able to rely on it)... Sounded a good idea to me...
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