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Old 08-02-2012, 04:15   #16
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Re: Emergency engine driven bilge pump

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Originally Posted by Ironhorse74 View Post
I think that is just the ticket. Thanks Parks
A waste of money other than the winterizing option of your little engine.

You would be better off buying a 1 inch gas trash pump for emergencies.
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Old 08-02-2012, 05:00   #17
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I have installed a Y-valve off the engine raw water hose on two boats now. It is installed before the strainer. It has worked great for winterizing the engine and for emergency use if I ever need it. It is a backup to an electric and hand bilge pumps.
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Old 08-02-2012, 06:16   #18
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Re: Emergency engine driven bilge pump

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Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
A waste of money other than the winterizing option of your little engine.

You would be better off buying a 1 inch gas trash pump for emergencies.
Check the output. I put a bucket under the exhaust of my Yanmar 3GM30F and timed it. 2 GPM at idle, assuming linear response 9 GPM at max rpm. Not what I would consider a lot of water. The smallest Honda trash pump is 37 GPM, Trash pumps get up to 100 GPM without hardly getting any bigger.

John
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Old 08-02-2012, 06:44   #19
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Re: Emergency engine driven bilge pump

Do you know what size pump it is? I have thought about putting one on my boat as a disaster pump. It would seem overkill to me to put a big one on as a deck wash pump though.

Jabsco impeller
model __ GPM __ length __ outlet diameter BSP
80 ______ 18 ____ 6" ______ 1"
200 _____ 43 ____ 10" _____ 1.5"
270 _____ 60 ____ 12"______ 2.0"

Around $1000 for the 270.

John


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On the 36 foot gamefishing vessel that I skipper it has a Jabsco engine mounted deck wash which has ran trouble free for over 6 years now and it has a valve where the inlet can be changed from the through hull to the bilge for use in an emergency pumpout which is very effective as it pumps a lot of water - much more than a large electric bilge pump.
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Old 08-02-2012, 09:33   #20
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Re: Emergency Engine Driven Bilge Pump

A portable gasoline engine driven pump would probably move a lot more water than your engine cooling pump. A large belt driven pump attached to your engine would probably be better as well. The advantage that your engine cooling pump has over both those systems is that you already own it. It can cost less than fifty dollars to allow your cooling pump to do double duty. If you've got the money, do it all. If water is coming into my boat, I want as many pumps working as I can get. Pumps are there to buy you time to fix the leak. More pumps equal more time.
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Old 08-02-2012, 09:39   #21
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Re: Emergency Engine Driven Bilge Pump

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A portable gasoline engine driven pump would probably move a lot more water than your engine cooling pump. A large belt driven pump attached to your engine would probably be better as well. The advantage that your engine cooling pump has over both those systems is that you already own it. It can cost less than fifty dollars to allow your cooling pump to do double duty. If you've got the money, do it all. If water is coming into my boat, I want as many pumps working as I can get. Pumps are there to buy you time to fix the leak. More pumps equal more time.
On a small diesel...running well below max RPM...are you willing to gamble putting your engine in jeapordy for just a little more flow when you may need your engine for safety reasons?

Different story on a boat with big diesel twins that will move hundreds of gallons a minute AND if one starts to overheat...etc...you still have another to manueuver with.
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Old 08-02-2012, 11:20   #22
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Re: Emergency Engine Driven Bilge Pump

Im a little amazed about the pumps you killed ! was it the electric motors that failed or impellers?? Ive used those types of pumps for yrs and never had trouble like you have had ! if it was the motors you just mite have an electrical problem IE low voltage, wireing incorrect, reversed,or something !! One thing I always put on a new to me boat (if not there already) is a BIG manual bildge pump, preferably mounted in the cockpit. saved my bacon a couple of times Just a thought Bob and Connie
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:28   #23
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Re: Emergency Engine Driven Bilge Pump

"On a small diesel...running well below max RPM...are you willing to gamble putting your engine in jeapordy for just a little more flow when you may need your engine for safety reasons?"

Yes I would. Flooding is the second most dangerous thing that can happen to a boat. I see no reason it would damage the engine anyway. The water is going through it's regular strainer and I pick up far more junk motoring through shallow water than I can get from my bilge. Big stuff would be stopped by the strum box on the end of my hose and anything that gets through my strainer will pass through the engine without a problem. I see no reason to run the engine at low RPM in this case. If the boat sinks, it's going to ruin the engine anyway. Because I installed this system, I have the option to use it or not. Those that don't install a similar system don't have the option. I like options in an emergency.
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Old 08-02-2012, 13:42   #24
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Re: Emergency Engine Driven Bilge Pump

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"On a small diesel...running well below max RPM...are you willing to gamble putting your engine in jeapordy for just a little more flow when you may need your engine for safety reasons?"

Yes I would. Flooding is the second most dangerous thing that can happen to a boat. I see no reason it would damage the engine anyway. The water is going through it's regular strainer and I pick up far more junk motoring through shallow water than I can get from my bilge. Big stuff would be stopped by the strum box on the end of my hose and anything that gets through my strainer will pass through the engine without a problem. I see no reason to run the engine at low RPM in this case. If the boat sinks, it's going to ruin the engine anyway. Because I installed this system, I have the option to use it or not. Those that don't install a similar system don't have the option. I like options in an emergency.
Obviously have missed MANY posts by people who find LOTs of stuff in their bilge after a good flooding...you CAN and MANY people have just pulled their hose/opened the top of their strainer so the option is there (worked at least in some cases)...and If you don't think you can overheat that diesel with it running at high RPM while you are busy with damage control...well you have missed a few of those stories along the way too.

As I stated before...the little you get out of a sailboat engine is a little...if you don't have lots more capacity from other pumps/etc....you are betting on the wrong horse..but if it makes YOU feel better than I'm OK with that.
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Old 08-02-2012, 14:07   #25
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Re: Emergency Engine Driven Bilge Pump

Crikey!!!

You've managed to kill four bilge pumps, and now you want to subject your engine cooling system to the same risk without figuring out why the mortality rate is so high?

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Old 08-02-2012, 14:07   #26
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Re: Emergency Engine Driven Bilge Pump

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Im a little amazed about the pumps you killed ! was it the electric motors that failed or impellers?? Ive used those types of pumps for yrs and never had trouble like you have had ! if it was the motors you just mite have an electrical problem IE low voltage, wireing incorrect, reversed,or something !! One thing I always put on a new to me boat (if not there already) is a BIG manual bildge pump, preferably mounted in the cockpit. saved my bacon a couple of times Just a thought Bob and Connie
Different pumps different issues. First off realize I was moving a boat that was new to me.

The Jabsco diaphragm pump was brand new. I installed it and used it at the dock it worked great. I actually used it while I hosed out the bilge. There is no polarity on the wiring for one of these pumps. As soon as it got rough, that pump locked up. Not the motor, the pump. I took it apart, cleaned the check valves put it back together and it locked up again. Jabsco was great about the pump. Sent me a new one and since it has been installed no problems. Still have the original and one of these days I am going to take it apart and then hook it back up. It was one of these 36600-0000 PAR BILGE PUMP 12V > Welcome to JabscoShop - Jabsco & Rule Pumps and more - from the experts

The centrifugal pump was one of these SPX Johnson Pump for Boatbuilders, Pleasure, Commercial & Fishing boats This is a back up for the Jabsco The motor failed. I now carry replacement cartridges.

The manual pump was like this one Whale Marine - Products. It worked for about 10 minutes and then the diaphragm failed. Old pump, has since been rebuilt and I now carry a rebuild kit for it.

Finally a Jabsco flexible impeller wash down pump. It was older than dirt and the rubber impeller failed.

Here is what I learned. Always carry rebuild kits for all bilge pumps. Any backup pump, is a good pump until it fails.
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Old 08-02-2012, 14:24   #27
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Re: Emergency Engine Driven Bilge Pump

PSNEELD, When the boat sinks the engine will cool. If my bilge was so dirty that it would stop my engine pump, it would have already stopped my three electric pumps. I actual wet/dry vaccuum my bilge about once a year so I can see what is going on in there. I usually find a couple of screws and a tool or two, nothing that would get through the strum box or strainer. I hadn't thought about opening the top of the strainer. Good idea if it is lower than the air intake on the engine. As for pulling the hose, that's probably very hard to do if it has been clamped onto the seacock for more than a few months. You could cut the hose but that not as easy as opening one valve and closing the seacock. If it makes you feel better to not have the option, I'm OK with that too. Do you ever get to Miami? I'd love to continue this discussion over lunch. I'll buy.
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Old 08-02-2012, 15:00   #28
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Re: Emergency engine driven bilge pump

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Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
Do you know what size pump it is? I have thought about putting one on my boat as a disaster pump. It would seem overkill to me to put a big one on as a deck wash pump though.

Jabsco impeller
model __ GPM __ length __ outlet diameter BSP
80 ______ 18 ____ 6" ______ 1"
200 _____ 43 ____ 10" _____ 1.5"
270 _____ 60 ____ 12"______ 2.0"

Around $1000 for the 270.

John
The bolt on fast pump from post #4 indicates 400gpm and costs $600 and will act as a blower for the engine compartment when there is no water.

However you have to have a bar stretch of prop shaft to attach it to and the space at the same location for the pump housing.

I like this better than the clutched pumps because no need for electrical service that can short out and because the pump is so low in the vessel, priming is less of an issue.
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Old 08-02-2012, 15:07   #29
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Re: Emergency engine driven bilge pump

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The bolt on fast pump from post #4 indicates 400gpm and costs $600 and will act as a blower for the engine compartment when there is no water.

However you have to have a bar stretch of prop shaft to attach it to and the space at the same location for the pump housing.

I like this better than the clutched pumps because no need for electrical service that can short out and because the pump is so low in the vessel, priming is less of an issue.

Does anyone have one of these installed? There was not a lot of tech info on the website??
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Old 08-02-2012, 15:37   #30
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Re: Emergency engine driven bilge pump

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Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
The bolt on fast pump from post #4 indicates 400gpm and costs $600 and will act as a blower for the engine compartment when there is no water.

However you have to have a bar stretch of prop shaft to attach it to and the space at the same location for the pump housing.

I like this better than the clutched pumps because no need for electrical service that can short out and because the pump is so low in the vessel, priming is less of an issue.
I looked into these when the brand name was Ericson. I think there was enough room under the driveshaft of the v-drive, but it was very tight. One of the things that bothered me about it was for it to work effectively I had to be motoring at close to hull speed. Lock off the tiller, go below and try to slow down the leak with the additional pressure of moving while you're driving around at random unless you have extra crew to sit at the helm. I haven't checked the new companies specs, but using Ericsons, I could only fit their smallest pump, and even though the pump was rated at 200 or 300 GPM, my prop shaft speed rated the pump at a little over 100 GPM.

The Jabsco pump with a manual clutch on the engine only requires electricity to get the engine started. My engine does not require any electricity once running and the pump with a manual clutch doesn't either. The pump can run with the engine in neutral or in gear. Impeller pumps shouldn't need any priming.

I also thought of belting a self priming centrifugal trash pump to the engine.

Here's the old thread:
Another Bilge Pump Thread

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