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Old 11-08-2010, 07:22   #31
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OK, guys, my bad. I think I inadvertently precipitated the diatribe by taking the OP's post literally. Splicing to me means joining two wires. He said he had windlass switch wires....these are very light...16 or 18 guage.

Basically, he wants to connect 8 wires to two spade terminals. Four to each.

While use of a terminal block with jumpers would certainly do the trick, and is the most conventional way, IMHO it's not the best in this case.

The currents in these circuits are very small. There are eight wires involved. If you do the ring terminals-and-terminal-block thingy, you wind up with twelve possible connections (8 to the terminal block and four for the wires from the terminal block to the spade connectors on the relay box).

There's a much easier and, IMHO, better way.

1. Cut off an inch of insulation from each wire to be joined (not spliced). Twist them together tightly, and cut to proper length for the connector. Now, you've got the rough equivalent of a larger diameter stranded wire:

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2. Crimp on the appropriate spade connector:

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3. Adhesive heat shrink the whole bundle:

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The little yellow wire tie helps.

The connection after step #2 is VERY strong. I tried pulling it apart and couldn't. A proper crimper makes the connection virtually identical to what you'd get with one larger size wire, instead of the four smaller ones.

Only other precaution is to be sure the spade connections are somehow secured so the wires don't put pressure on the spade connection.

Only downside of this procedure is that if you have to disconnect anything, e.g., to replace one of the switches, then you have to re-do the connections. Not a big deal, 'cuz if you do it right...and leave an appropriate service loop...replacement will be easy as pie.

FWIW,

Bill
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Old 11-08-2010, 08:09   #32
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Originally Posted by Christian Van H View Post
OK, here goes. I found your previous post about the OP to be unnecessarily offensive. I find this quoted post to be offensive. I have also read some of your other posts, and found them insulting and offensive to other posters. I have seen it suggested here that the "Camano Troll" listed in your signature might be your actual profession. I'm not going to play this game...trust me.
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Originally Posted by Christian Van H View Post

The OP asked for an ABYC approved method. He has the right, and he's smart to know how important it is.
Christian Van H ,

I do not post to please you or anyone else. I post to find or provide information. If you find my posts to be offensive, I suggest that you either grow some thicker skin or just ignore them.

Other people interpreted the original post as I did, a question of how to "splice" wires. Based on the question, I provided what I believe was an appropriate response.

The ABYC standards basically state the expected results, not how to achieve them. I have yet to see your quote from their standards prohibiting more than one conductor in each end of a butt connector. I have seen and worked on several production boats where this technique was used to wire a series of cabin lights. I don't believe it is prohibited, nor do I believe it is unsafe or unreliable.

As for making fun of my signature, my boat was manufactured by "Camano" and the model name is "Troll", hence "Camano Troll". It has nothing to do with my profession. It's a pretty nice boat and it's fully paid for.

I have participated in many different boating forums, some dominated by fishing, some by wakeboarding, houseboats, etc. I would have thought that a "Cruising" forum would be composed of mature, thoughtful people who have mastered their communication and interpersonal skills and who enjoy their "slow" boats, cruising from place to place, etc. and exchanging information with each other.

Apparently, I was mistaken. I find more folks on this forum lurking in the shadows and waiting to start an argument over something silly than most of the other forums I have participated in. This is truly a shame. Rather than a free exchange of information and ideas, it is apparently necessary to walk on one's tip toes to avoid offending someone. Again, a shame.

That is all.
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Old 11-08-2010, 08:10   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btrayfors View Post
OK, guys, my bad. I think I inadvertently precipitated the diatribe by taking the OP's post literally. Splicing to me means joining two wires. He said he had windlass switch wires....these are very light...16 or 18 guage.

Basically, he wants to connect 8 wires to two spade terminals. Four to each.

While use of a terminal block with jumpers would certainly do the trick, and is the most conventional way, IMHO it's not the best in this case.

The currents in these circuits are very small. There are eight wires involved. If you do the ring terminals-and-terminal-block thingy, you wind up with twelve possible connections (8 to the terminal block and four for the wires from the terminal block to the spade connectors on the relay box).

There's a much easier and, IMHO, better way.

1. Cut off an inch of insulation from each wire to be joined (not spliced). Twist them together tightly, and cut to proper length for the connector. Now, you've got the rough equivalent of a larger diameter stranded wire:

Attachment 18387

2. Crimp on the appropriate spade connector:

Attachment 18388

3. Adhesive heat shrink the whole bundle:

Attachment 18389

The little yellow wire tie helps.

The connection after step #2 is VERY strong. I tried pulling it apart and couldn't. A proper crimper makes the connection virtually identical to what you'd get with one larger size wire, instead of the four smaller ones.

Only other precaution is to be sure the spade connections are somehow secured so the wires don't put pressure on the spade connection.

Only downside of this procedure is that if you have to disconnect anything, e.g., to replace one of the switches, then you have to re-do the connections. Not a big deal, 'cuz if you do it right...and leave an appropriate service loop...replacement will be easy as pie.

FWIW,

Bill
That will work just fine.
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Old 11-08-2010, 08:11   #34
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See also pages 10 & 11:
http://www.abycinc.org/members/abycnews_spring05.pdf
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Old 11-08-2010, 09:14   #35
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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Per ABYC 11.16.3.7.
"Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit.
+1. Solder only provides an electrical connection: It is not a mechanical connection. Even "NASA-spec" soldering jobs, or "The bigger the glob, the better the job"

Are the ABYC standards online (free)?
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Old 11-08-2010, 11:15   #36
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I've got a couple of these waterproof junction boxes. They work well and come in 8 connection & 16 connection sizes. A lot cheaper than the Newmar type. Send me a PM and I'll forward you the e-Bay sellers listings.
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Old 11-08-2010, 12:59   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Healer52 View Post
+1. Solder only provides an electrical connection: It is not a mechanical connection. Even "NASA-spec" soldering jobs, or "The bigger the glob, the better the job"

Are the ABYC standards online (free)?
The last time I looked, NASA specifications for soldering electrical connections may have been as much as hundreds of pages long.
I don't believe "The bigger the glob, the better the job".

Some ABYC Standards are sometimes available online (free). They are not supposed to be.
Numerous manufacturers (Ancor) provide excerpts.
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Old 11-08-2010, 13:09   #38
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Originally Posted by knottybuoyz View Post
I've got a couple of these waterproof junction boxes...
Make certain that the terminal strips are the "Wire Protector version", which supplies a plate to shield the wire from being cut by the screw. (Most are Not)
The type wherin the screw bears directly on the wire is not approved (for good reason).
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Old 12-08-2010, 06:24   #39
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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Make certain that the terminal strips are the "Wire Protector version", which supplies a plate to shield the wire from being cut by the screw. (Most are Not)
The type wherin the screw bears directly on the wire is not approved (for good reason).
Good point. No they're not the type with the plate that squishes the wire. I've replaced the terminal strips supplied with standard screw terminals.
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Old 12-08-2010, 14:57   #40
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As for making fun of my signature, my boat was manufactured by "Camano" and the model name is "Troll", hence "Camano Troll". It has nothing to do with my profession. It's a pretty nice boat and it's fully paid for.
I stand corrected. There is no way anyone employed as a troll could afford that boat. It's a really nice boat.
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Old 12-08-2010, 15:03   #41
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A terminal block can be enclosed in a waterproof housing achieving the veritable unicorn of electrical connectivity!
Does that mean only virginal electricians can work on the wiring!!!?
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Old 12-08-2010, 15:08   #42
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Does that mean only virginal electricians can work on the wiring!!!?
Count me out...
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Old 12-08-2010, 15:25   #43
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Quote:
One would "splice" the power lead from the boat's electrical system to the pigtail on a bilge pump. One would not typically install a terminal block.
Not necessarily so. I have found it to be very convenient to install a terminal block well above the normal bilge water to allow connection of the, typically AWG 16 pump pigtails, to the typically > AWG 16 branch feeders to the bilge pump.

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Old 12-08-2010, 16:07   #44
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to the typically > AWG 16 branch feeders to the bilge pump. Charlie
I don't believe that Charlie typically installs merely <#16AWG feeders to a bilge pump. He'd use MUCH LARGER THAN #16 AWG.
These larger feeders could be accommodated with but splices.
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Old 12-08-2010, 16:14   #45
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I don't believe that Charlie typically installs merely <#16AWG feeders to a bilge pump. He'd use MUCH LARGER THAN #16 AWG.
These larger feeders could be accommodated with but splices.
The > meant larger than...
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