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Old 06-03-2015, 21:27   #1
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Edson Wheel Tiller Glassed On Sheave Support Blocks

My Alberg 35 had it's original tiller converted to Edson Steering long before I came into her possession. The sheave support blocks have in one season pulled loose from the hull to which they were glasses on both port and Starboard sides (two different occasions) Is there another way to engineer this fix without having to glass blocks of 4x4 to the hull and mount the sheaves onto them? Perhaps a self contained unit that offered its own resistance. After being without steering twice (ON THE WATER) I feel this design is weak and needs a serious upgrade. So far the guys at Edson have had no input other than to suggest that's the only way to do it. I'm no structural engineer but I'm not buying it.


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Old 06-03-2015, 21:52   #2
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Re: Edson Wheel Tiller Glassed On Sheave Support Blocks

There are some really smart cookies on CF and yes there is always a better way to engineer something.

Get some pics of the area and post them. Load distribution is key here. Sounds like "single point" load bearing and that is just not gonna work, apparently, as you are captive to the strength of adhesives.

It's really about carrying the load through to something that doesn't move. i.e. a bulkhead or some other structure and making sure that structure does not get overstressed by additional loading.
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Old 06-03-2015, 22:12   #3
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Re: Edson Wheel Tiller Glassed On Sheave Support Blocks

My first thought is to bolt them to a G10 plate that has been epoxy bogged into the hull. But pictures would be great.
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Old 08-03-2015, 01:55   #4
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Re: Edson Wheel Tiller Glassed On Sheave Support Blocks

Pictures help, but you can disperse the loading of the blocks,ie flatter panels first then screw or bolt the needed thickness to that and reglass, and attach turning pulleys if that's what it's using.


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Old 08-03-2015, 03:48   #5
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Re: Edson Wheel Tiller Glassed On Sheave Support Blocks

What is the purpose of the support blocks ? Can the cables not run from under the wheel assembly straight to a quadrant on the rudder post ?
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Old 08-03-2015, 04:28   #6
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Re: Edson Wheel Tiller Glassed On Sheave Support Blocks

I would be inclined to trash the whole wheel thing and return to the far more reliable tiller. Nothing but problems with cable-run steering systems. But if you're determined to keep the wheel, and gluing blocks to the hull doesn't work, you could put a beam of some sort 'twartships and fix the blocks to it at the desired locations. As long as the beam didn't break or deflect, the blocks would stay put.
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Old 08-03-2015, 18:56   #7
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Re: Edson Wheel Tiller Glassed On Sheave Support Blocks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benz View Post
I would be inclined to trash the whole wheel thing and return to the far more reliable tiller. Nothing but problems with cable-run steering systems
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Old 08-03-2015, 19:32   #8
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Re: Edson Wheel Tiller Glassed On Sheave Support Blocks

The cable steering on my 2nd generation P35 had the 2"x8" mahogany block supports glassed to the hull at the bottom and resting against and laminated to the cockpit sides at the top. Factory used several layers of woven roving undoubtedly done when the hull was relatively green. No problems with the blocks staying in place. A real bitch to grind out when I tore the wheel out to go to tiller steering.

Polyester resin doesn't bond so well to seasoned FRP lay ups even with careful prepping of the surface to be bonded. Maybe going with epoxy resin to bond the supports and a really substantial lay up might solve the problem. That is if you don't do the smart thing and ditch the wheel for a tiller.
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Old 08-03-2015, 20:13   #9
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Re: Edson Wheel Tiller Glassed On Sheave Support Blocks

Thanks, I will consider tiller once I am ready to redo the cockpit sole. (A job that will want to be done sometime in the future as she is a little soft now) The fact is that the boat is in on the hard in Oyster Bay and I am in a NYC apt, she's not exactly in my garage ready for me to work on her after dinner and on weekends. For now I just need to fix the steering and make her safe. If I can't figure out a way to do this myself before May 15 launch with limited time and resources I may be looking at paying the boat yard to do it. Which may mean big $$$ and the path of least resistance when it comes to the reimagining of the design for robust resistance and load dispersal. In other words I might be shelling out a lot for the same kind of fix that ended in catastrophic failure twice last year.


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Old 08-03-2015, 20:28   #10
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Re: Edson Wheel Tiller Glassed On Sheave Support Blocks

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Old 08-03-2015, 21:06   #11
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Re: Edson Wheel Tiller Glassed On Sheave Support Blocks

Most of that equipment appears to be through bolted to the cockpit sole? Inside an aft locker?

The two turning blocks at the bottom outer ends appear to be the exception. Are these the failure points? Does the wood block come off the white block or does the white block come off the hull?

Idea 1 - If the white block is stable one could fabricate a "U-channel" plate that fits over the white block then through bolted for and aft. The plate could be tapped and drilled and the bolts secured with safety wire.

Idea 2 - If the equipment is in fact through bolted could the turning blocks be reveresed, suspended from the cabin sole, appropriate stand off fabricated and through bolted to the same way as the other equipment.

Idea 3 - Another major redesign would be to fabricate a plate that is big enough to encompass all the equipment. Mount this securely to the ceiling with through bolts. Then dump all the little wood blocks, fabricate metal blocks and remount all of the equipment with steel, alum or what ever.
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Old 08-03-2015, 21:47   #12
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Re: Edson Wheel Tiller Glassed On Sheave Support Blocks

The block is breaking free of the hull. All the hardware seems to be in good shape. I'm wondering if I could use the locker frame to attach a length of g10 or 4x4 port and starboard vertically and build in a top and bottom spreader. That would bring the hardware (the sheaves that were mounted to the block) in towards center by a good 6inches on either side and have the plate mount vertically and not horizontally as show. I feel like those sheaves pivot to make something like that possible. I also like the idea someone had of just laying a big 4x4 across the area to accept both sheaves. I like the simplicity of that but My only fear is I that I will still be dealing with glassing onto that old fiber glass hull that seems to have little interest in holding.


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Old 08-03-2015, 22:00   #13
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Re: Edson Wheel Tiller Glassed On Sheave Support Blocks

It's hard to tell from the photos but think you're talking about the sheaves in what looks like a box. The box appears to be just glued to the hull not laminated to it with cloth and matt. If that is the case, would try and figure out how you could get in there and get lots of cloth and matt to soplidly bond the boxes to the hull. That should cure your problems. Of course the problem with boats is stuff that is in nearly inaccessible locations. That's why boat Yoga is such a craze. Just wish I looked as good in those Yoga pants as the women. Not surprized that the sheave attachments have been breaking free if they've only been glued to the hull.

If the box has nothing to do with anchoring the sheave, could you through bolt the block to the hull. A flat head bolt could be recessed into the hull and glassed over with the nuts on the inside. Problem would be locating the position to drill up through the hull and the block.
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Old 08-03-2015, 23:06   #14
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Edson Wheel Tiller Glassed On Sheave Support Blocks

Those turning pulleys should be on swivels, not fixed to the support blocks.
That's gonna help a lot with alignment.
Interesting arrangement.


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Old 09-03-2015, 06:18   #15
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Re: Edson Wheel Tiller Glassed On Sheave Support Blocks

The wooden blocks that the sheaves fasten to are "glassed" to the hull with glass cloth and epoxy.


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