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Old 11-12-2014, 16:24   #16
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Re: Dyneema Lifelines

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Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
Don't "just tie it on" fer crisakes
Yep, I like the look.

I'm thinking the Polynesians probably tied their lifelines on, and I understand they are/were pretty good sailors and ocean reading navigators.

Plus, I didn't have lifelines on any of my past sailboats this one being the last of 4. (Not sure if the Polynesians were as good at setting mast prebend though for heavy weather buoy racing. Checkout some of the masts on the lead boats):

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Old 11-12-2014, 16:49   #17
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Re: Dyneema Lifelines

You sure like to post pix of beach cats racing to illustrate comments about cruising in cruising boats! And I assume that the Polynesian reference is a jest...

But mate, tying Dyneema just isn't a useful means of attaching it. You like the look??? So what? It is too slippery for knots to work well. However, the splices are very simple and quick to do, as in < 5 minutes each as an amateur. I use the simple "ski-rope" splice with a few stitches, as shown by Sampson Ropes. They say 95-100 % of breaking strength, and that's good enough for me!

And my Dyneema 75 life lines are now 6 years old. Had to replace one that got taken out by a flailing furler when the Hyfield lever opened up at sea, but it was a severe situation that likely would have damaged a typical wire lifeline. I use Davis shroud cover material over it where it goes through the stanchions... cheap and easy to install. Chafe has not been an issue.

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Old 11-12-2014, 16:53   #18
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Re: Dyneema Lifelines

A very polarizing topic. There is a long thread on this at SA in the Gear Anarchy section, including the latest ISAF report.


Life. Depends on whether you hike against them (cruisers do not) and size (cruisers generally go up a size to 1/4"). 8 years is more like it, still less than SS.


Termination failures. Amsteel is actually better that SS in flex life and terminations. Crimps are often failure spots, where as splicing Amsteel is pretty moron proof... or at least the errors are easy to spot.

Comfort. Personal taste. You can actually make a pretty good case for plastic covered lines, so long as you keep an eye on them. Certainly longer-lasting than Amsteel!


Cutting. You do need to polish the stanchion holes, specifically if they have seen bare wire. This is in the ISAF guidance document. But if you try to cut this stuff with a knife you learn it ain't that easy.


Value of weight savings. This depends on the boat; a valuable for multihulls and sport boats, pointless on lead mines. How much would you pay, per pound, to have a lighter boat?


The new ISAF ruling is divided; you'll have to read it. Basically, they feel the jury is still out in some areas.
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Old 11-12-2014, 16:55   #19
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Re: Dyneema Lifelines

Here is a comparison between new and old.. these coated lifelines will.outlast.rope several.times over. So.what if they need replaced in ten years . Besides the new plastics have a much better UV resistance due to improved additives . They make the boat look so much better. They were last item to be replaced for cosmetic.apppearance. now when you walk up the dock you see my 24 year old endeavour 42 and it looks amazing . Rope is a racer fad period.

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Old 11-12-2014, 17:05   #20
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Re: Dyneema Lifelines

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
You sure like to post pix of beach cats racing to illustrate comments about cruising in cruising boats! And I assume that the Polynesian reference is a jest...

But mate, tying Dyneema just isn't a useful means of attaching it. You like the look??? So what? It is too slippery for knots to work well. However, the splices are very simple and quick to do, as in < 5 minutes each as an amateur. I use the simple "ski-rope" splice with a few stitches, as shown by Sampson Ropes. They say 95-100 % of breaking strength, and that's good enough for me!

And my Dyneema 75 life lines are now 6 years old. Had to replace one that got taken out by a flailing furler when the Hyfield lever opened up at sea, but it was a severe situation that likely would have damaged a typical wire lifeline. I use Davis shroud cover material over it where it goes through the stanchions... cheap and easy to install. Chafe has not been an issue.

Jim
Thanks! Maybe I'll reconsider after testing a few knots. I tried it tonight with my excess furler line. So far so good.

(my boat is in the yard but don't tell the guys over on the " Cost of Cruising " thread! It will increase the dollars I said I spent.)

No, the Polynesians were great sailors. No jest there. They actually navigated by the waves. Or that's how they found the Islands when sailing East.
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Old 11-12-2014, 17:12   #21
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Re: Dyneema Lifelines

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
Thanks! Maybe I'll reconsider after testing a few knots. I tried it tonight with my extra furler line. So far so good.

(my boat is in the yard but don't tell the guys over on the cost of Cruising thread!)

No, the Polynesians were great sailors. No jest there. They actually navigated by the waves. Or that's how they found the Islands when sailing East.
Unless you can pull the knots to 5000 pounds you won't learn anything. There are a very few knots that will not creap under load, and I doubt you know any of them (they are specialty knots). Long SA thread. Splices and lashings or turnbuckles only. The splice is DEAD simple. You can do it with a pencil or wire in a few minutes.
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Old 11-12-2014, 17:14   #22
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Re: Dyneema Lifelines

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
Thanks! Maybe I'll reconsider after testing a few knots. I tried it tonight with my extra furler line. So far so good.

(my boat is in the yard but don't tell the guys over on the cost of Cruising thread!)

No, the Polynesians were great sailors. No jest there. They actually navigated by the waves. Or that's how they found the Islands when sailing East.
Thomm, the testing of knots has already been done. Evans Starzinger has posted about this here on CF. I don't know what your old furler line has to do with this, for most of us are talking about bare Dyneema 75 for lifelines. Or is that what you were using for your furler?

And sure, the Polynesians were accomplished sailors and designers and navigators. The pictures I've seen of the canoes in use when first sighted by Europeans didn't feature lifelines, so I'm again not understanding the point of your reference.

Jim
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Old 11-12-2014, 17:17   #23
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Re: Dyneema Lifelines

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Unless you can pull the knots to 5000 pounds you won't learn anything. There are a very few knots that will not creap under load, and I doubt you know any of them (they are specialty knots). Long SA thread. Splices and lashings or turnbuckles only. The splice is DEAD simple. You can do it with a pencil or wire in a few minutes.
That's why I tie in a lot of them!

Actually, I plan to tighten the thing up as it slackens which will keep new "rope" in the stanchion pass thru areas.

Having been on boats since a young age, I rarely touch the lifelines.
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Old 11-12-2014, 17:41   #24
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Re: Dyneema Lifelines

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And sure, the Polynesians were accomplished sailors and designers and navigators. The pictures I've seen of the canoes in use when first sighted by Europeans didn't feature lifelines, so I'm again not understanding the point of your reference.

Jim
My reference is that even when I sailed in 24-30 knots of wind down the Chesapeake I could have done so without any lifelines.

As you know, I'm still in the learning mode as far as this cruising business, and I'm testing some ideas.

Btw, I removed and replaced my 352 lb diesel engine with lines on my boat and the boom. I had to wait for the right tide to swing the thing over onto the dock. I still had the boat over on the Eastern Shore at the time. The boom did have quite a bend going there though.

Not a beach cat video this time Jim: (weather buoy showed 24-30 mph for 4 hours)

Bristol 27 Sailing down Chesapeake in 22-28 knots.
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Old 11-12-2014, 18:33   #25
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Re: Dyneema Lifelines

The splice is super easy, takes about 10 min once you learn it, ensures the rated strength, and looks good. A ceramic knife is a must have though. I tried good steel knives and had to saw it to cut through, which buggers up the clean end you need to pass the line through the bury. Ceramic works like butter through Dyneema. It's amazingly cool.
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Old 11-12-2014, 18:35   #26
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Re: Dyneema Lifelines

I just noticed that Cobb's Boatyard installs lifelines.

My boat is maybe 75' from the main door at Cobb's. I think I'll check with them on the price of traditional lines. My boat only has singles anyway.

The lifelines coming off my boat are 40 years old and have stretched three inches over the years but are still strong.
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Old 11-12-2014, 19:16   #27
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Re: Dyneema Lifelines

I switched to uncoated SS lifelines 9 years ago. Great decision. Skip the white coating.
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Old 11-12-2014, 20:11   #28
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Re: Dyneema Lifelines

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I switched to uncoated SS lifelines 9 years ago. Great decision. Skip the white coating.
Why do you prefer the lines without white coating?
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Old 11-12-2014, 20:57   #29
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Re: Dyneema Lifelines

The coating traps water against the wire promoting corrosion while at the same time obscuring the wire from inspection. Sort of bad two ways. (See photo of rusty cracked yellowed lifelines above)

If you use wire, uncoated is preferred. If your lifelines look all cracked and rusty, don't leave them to be the last item you fix and don't fix them because of cosmetics, fix them much sooner and do so for safety. They're called "lifelines" not "pretty lines" for a reason.
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Old 12-12-2014, 04:49   #30
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Re: Dyneema Lifelines

The same for covering the shrouds. I removed the white covers as soon as I bought the boat.
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