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Old 08-06-2015, 09:27   #1
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Dutchman flaking system on larger boats

I am fortunate to have a Hanse 505. One of the biggest problems with single-handed sailing is raising and lowering the main with the lazy-jack system. The thick sails and height above deck of the boom makes these activities a pain. I am starting to look at the Dutchman system and looking for others that may have done it. I am particularly interested in anyone that may have installed it on a Seldon single-line reefing boom.

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Festina Lente
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Old 08-06-2015, 09:57   #2
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Re: Dutchman flaking system on larger boats

How would the Dutchman system change things re raising and lowering the main? If your problem is the battens catching on the lazy jacks when hoisting the sail tie the lazy jacks off to the spreaders with thin bungee cord. This will widen the slot and prevent the battens from snagging.
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Old 08-06-2015, 13:26   #3
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Re: Dutchman flaking system on larger boats

I have heard from sail repairers that the Dutchman system can cause a lot of chafe damage to the sail if you are doing a lot of long distance work.

I also ties my lazy jacks off to the mast whilst hoisting the sail and then I set them up for lowering the sail when all is set
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Old 08-06-2015, 13:44   #4
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Re: Dutchman flaking system on larger boats

I've used them on a Bene 40.7 I used to race on and my current 47' battle wagon and have to say that when i replace my mainsail I'm going to lazy jacks.
The Bene had a relatively new mainsail, my current boat came with a main that is, to say the least, beyond it's prime and the Dutchman system didn't have any huge advantage over more traditional flaking systems I've had. It did have more disadvantages though, mounting the mainsail in the first place becomes a bigger pain than it needs to be. The chafe issues already mentioned and the "pucks" mounted to the sails were another added maintenance issue since they tend to fall off from time to time and need to be re-glued.
Does it work? Sure it does, but it's not that much better than a traditional lazy jack system to make it worth the cost to have it done when I replace the main in a year or so. I'll be going back to a lazy jack system like I had two boats ago, it pulls back to a hook on the mast when not in use. I found that after the sail had been flaked and stowed a number of times with the lazy jacks it tended to stow relatively easily.
Even better? I didn't have to have a sail cover with all the extra slits in it that have to be fastened when putting it on only to have them all blow open in a good breeze, it seems I have to do repair work on the cover too every year.
It all depends on what your intended use is, in my case it wouldn't be my first choice.
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Old 09-06-2015, 09:34   #5
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Re: Dutchman flaking system on larger boats

i have a dutchman on my huge, battened mainsail. I love it. my wife loves it.

adjust it once or twice at the beginning of the season, then the sail raises and lowers like a venetian blind. combined with an electric winch our sailing is a piece of cake even though the sail is huge and heavy. we never put off raising or furling it now. I will never use lazy jacks every again.
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Old 09-06-2015, 09:52   #6
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Re: Dutchman flaking system on larger boats

I've had a Dutchman system on my previous boat and current boat, Sabre 456, with full batten mainsail.. The key is having it adjusted correctly. Once done, works extremely well. Have had no problems with chafe, but dirt does tend to flow down the lines requiring hosing off the mainsail regularly. My boat has 3 control lines, while her sister ship has 4. Not sure 4 lines are necessary.
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Old 09-06-2015, 10:35   #7
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Re: Dutchman flaking system on larger boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by SausalitoDave View Post
I am fortunate to have a Hanse 505. One of the biggest problems with single-handed sailing is raising and lowering the main with the lazy-jack system. The thick sails and height above deck of the boom makes these activities a pain. I am starting to look at the Dutchman system and looking for others that may have done it. I am particularly interested in anyone that may have installed it on a Seldon single-line reefing boom.

Thanks
Dave
Hanse 505
Festina Lente
Hi Dave,

I have had a Dutchman system on 2 boats: a 47 sloop [I replaced lazy jacks with Dutchman] and our present boat [43 ft ketch] came with the Dutchman system on the main sail.

I liked how it worked on both vessels, but the most remarkable difference is noted on the current vessel: Strong's FastTrack [to reduce mainsail slide friction] combined with the Dutchman makes a remarkable sail handling system- especially for single handing...

With that said, while we were in the area last summer we had the boat measured for new sails [for when the time comes...] by Port Townsend Sails. Carol strongly encouraged us to consider switching to a specific design of lazy jacks by Port Townsend Rigging when we replace the main sail. I trust her judgement and will likely make that change in the future.

I hope this is helpful.

Cheers!
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Old 09-06-2015, 11:12   #8
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Re: Dutchman flaking system on larger boats

I had dutchman flaking on my Hunter Legend 35.5 with single line reefing as well.

The flaking never worked. All the tweaking I could do never helped. It was awful.

However, the single line reefing was like a magic trick, it was awsome. Easiest reefing ever.
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Old 09-06-2015, 14:28   #9
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Re: Dutchman flaking system on larger boats

I've had the Dutchman system for years, but have used other systems as well. The problem I've had w the lazy jacks is that I've never seen them actually flake the sail, which the Dutchman will do if properly installed. Therefore, although lazy jacks keep the sail off of the deck when lowered... one must commit the time and trouble to pull/ flake/fold/tie which can be tiresome at best, dangerous at worst in tossing seas w squalls on way, esp. w the size of the boom/sail you must have on your 50 ft sailboat. Lazy jacks with a stack pack solve some of the problem if you don't mind the extra canvas permanently installed on your boom.
Best solutions: Hit the lottery and get an in-boom furling system...or get a Dutchman / stack pack combo (although I've never seen that). Cheers, Pappy
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Old 09-06-2015, 15:09   #10
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Re: Dutchman flaking system on larger boats

I have had the Dutchman since it was invented. I have a 440sf main w/3 lines and it is a snap to hoist and drop/flake the main. Once the sail has some memory of the folds flaking it is not an issue. Reefing is easy. A power assisted winch makes a big difference with a large main. Installing the lines is a PITA but it's done once and never again.. unless you take the sail off.
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Old 09-06-2015, 15:32   #11
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Re: Dutchman flaking system on larger boats

I have a single line reefing main and a Dutchman. I've spend 5 years adjusting the lines and fixing the disks that always come loose (I'm slowly drilling them all the disks and installing screw etc). Last week I speant a couple of hours patching the sail where the disk had worn a hole. It works OK kind of, but when time to replace the sail that PITA is going to be history!!!!!

My last boat had a Doyle Stapak, it was a drop the sail and zip the cover up. Much less a PITA.
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Old 09-06-2015, 18:00   #12
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Re: Dutchman flaking system on larger boats

After various forms of jacks, wound up with Forespar's Leisure Furl. Furls in the boom, and has worked well in good and bad weather
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Old 09-06-2015, 20:28   #13
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Re: Dutchman flaking system on larger boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by SausalitoDave View Post
I am fortunate to have a Hanse 505. One of the biggest problems with single-handed sailing is raising and lowering the main with the lazy-jack system. The thick sails and height above deck of the boom makes these activities a pain. I am starting to look at the Dutchman system and looking for others that may have done it. I am particularly interested in anyone that may have installed it on a Seldon single-line reefing boom.

Thanks
Dave
Hanse 505
Festina Lente
For optimum ease of raising/lowering main get a sail pack. With a new inserted frictionless main track and slugs is ideal for single handler and removing/replacing sail cover is eliminated. Infinitely better than Dutchman.
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Old 10-06-2015, 08:51   #14
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Re: Dutchman flaking system on larger boats

We picked up a older Tartan 372 in NY for delivery and the sail always got hung up so had to go slow with it. Didn't know at the time, but now I do, the dutchman needed adjusting as has been stated many times in this thread. Thanks for the info all.
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Old 10-06-2015, 08:57   #15
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Re: Dutchman flaking system on larger boats

Thanks to everyone for their comments. The problem I have is less to do with raising the sail and more to do with getting it down, properly flaked, and into the bag supplied by Hanse. Unless the sail is reasonably well flaked, it is a PITA to get the bag zipped, especially if I am alone. If I were 6 inches taller …..
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