Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-09-2012, 19:35   #31
Registered User
 
cburger's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nyack, NY
Boat: Westsail 32
Posts: 1,547
Images: 1
Re: Diesel Heater - Piss Poor Instructions

Thanks fellas, I am looking forward to curling up with a good book on a cold winters night in the glow of the little diesel fireplace.
__________________

__________________
"All men are created equal, some are just more equal than others"
cburger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2012, 08:30   #32
Registered User
 
S/V Alchemy's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto
Boat: Custom 41' Steel Pilothouse Cutter
Posts: 4,574
Re: Diesel Heater - Piss Poor Instructions

You may enjoy this book

The Warm Dry Boat by Roger McAfee


It uses plain and even salty language to explain how heaters, particularly diesel, can, when used in conjunction with proper ventilation, greatly dry out otherwise damp vessels.

I learned a lot from this book.
__________________

__________________
Can't sleep? Read www.alchemy2009.blogspot.com for fast relief. Can't read? Avoid www.volumesofsalt.blogspot.com, because it's just personal reviews of sea books.
S/V Alchemy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2012, 13:55   #33
Registered User
 
cburger's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nyack, NY
Boat: Westsail 32
Posts: 1,547
Images: 1
Re: Diesel Heater - Piss Poor Instructions

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
You may enjoy this book

The Warm Dry Boat by Roger McAfee


It uses plain and even salty language to explain how heaters, particularly diesel, can, when used in conjunction with proper ventilation, greatly dry out otherwise damp vessels.

I learned a lot from this book.

Thanks for the great link.
__________________
"All men are created equal, some are just more equal than others"
cburger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2012, 17:22   #34
Registered User
 
rognvald's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Summer: In the land of Wooly Mammoths
Boat: Pearson 34-II
Posts: 2,252
Images: 2
Re: Diesel Heater - Piss Poor Instructions

Although it seems that the issue has been reasonably resolved, I would like to add that Cburger has a very valid point concerning installation manuals in general and the Dickinson specifically. The installation of a heater is a very serious project with potential for deadly harm if not installed properly. A well written manual should allow the "do it yourself" boater with reasonable mechanical skills the ability to install the unit properly and safely. The onus should be on the vendor to write a concise, easily understood manual applicable in all situations. Especially to those who cannot run to a mechanic/installer every time they want something done on their boat. Generalized instructions for installation should not be acceptable and a responsive technical support department is a must. The time a company has been in business has no bearing upon that responsibility and ,in fact, should be greater based upon the length of time in business. On a lesser note, the ability to communicate clearly and concisely seems to be a vanishing skill and Cburgers frustration is clearly evidence of this. Good luck on a hopefully safe and productive project.
__________________
rognvald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2012, 17:53   #35
Registered User
 
cburger's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nyack, NY
Boat: Westsail 32
Posts: 1,547
Images: 1
Re: Diesel Heater - Piss Poor Instructions

Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
Although it seems that the issue has been reasonably resolved, I would like to add that Cburger has a very valid point concerning installation manuals in general and the Dickinson specifically. The installation of a heater is a very serious project with potential for deadly harm if not installed properly. A well written manual should allow the "do it yourself" boater with reasonable mechanical skills the ability to install the unit properly and safely. The onus should be on the vendor to write a concise, easily understood manual applicable in all situations. Especially to those who cannot run to a mechanic/installer every time they want something done on their boat. Generalized instructions for installation should not be acceptable and a responsive technical support department is a must. The time a company has been in business has no bearing upon that responsibility and ,in fact, should be greater based upon the length of time in business. On a lesser note, the ability to communicate clearly and concisely seems to be a vanishing skill and Cburgers frustration is clearly evidence of this. Good luck on a hopefully safe and productive project.
I was on the phone with Dickinson today and discussed this very issue with a company rep.
__________________
"All men are created equal, some are just more equal than others"
cburger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-09-2012, 17:41   #36
Registered User
 
cburger's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nyack, NY
Boat: Westsail 32
Posts: 1,547
Images: 1
Re: Diesel Heater - Piss Poor Instructions

I want to give an update on my "Dickinson" diesel heater install. I was about to start another thread called "Piss Poor Design" but figured that because I have found more issues with their poor instruction manual that I would just combine the two.

So the very challanging install has been finaly completed and I thought it was good time to fire the heater and test it out
__________________
"All men are created equal, some are just more equal than others"
cburger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-09-2012, 18:20   #37
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,003
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Re: Diesel Heater - Piss Poor Instructions

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
You may enjoy this book

The Warm Dry Boat by Roger McAfee


It uses plain and even salty language to explain how heaters, particularly diesel, can, when used in conjunction with proper ventilation, greatly dry out otherwise damp vessels.

I learned a lot from this book.
Unfortunately it seems the book is sold out. Might try searching Amazon if you have to have this book
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a Pearson 35
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-11-2012, 12:10   #38
Marine Service Provider
 
DickinsonMarine's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: BC Canada
Boat: Trawler 32ft
Posts: 14
Re: Piss Poor Instructions

Quote:
Originally Posted by cburger View Post
Pretty rough post pal, I am much smarter than the equipment I am installing, just wondering what happens when the relatively inexperienced tries to to put this heater in and burns the boat to the water line killing himself and family. Can see the lawyers circling already. Shame the company doesn't value your life, or have a little more pride in what they do, sign of the times.
Thanks for the feedback. Dickinson will be looking at improving our installtion instructions. For the record, Dickinson values our customers lives, as well as, have much pride in what we do.
__________________
DickinsonMarine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-11-2012, 21:35   #39
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,441
Re: Diesel Heater - Piss Poor Instructions

Anyone who, in the words of the OP, is at risk of "killing (him or her) self with an improperly installed heater"
should in my view not be installing such a heater, regardless of the quality of the instructions.

Most of the sorts of installation faults which would cause a fire are not specific to a particular make or model of stove.

The company cannot be expected to provide an education sufficient to bring a randomly chosen member of the public up to the required level of competence in the wide variety of skills required, and then follow that with a comprehensive set of instructions covering all contingencies.

Here's an example of why that seems unreasonable to me:

If I understand you correctly, you seem to be taking Dickinson to task for your assumption that the fuel line had to be installed with multiple redundant bends, so as to hug the profile of the heater. Given the virtually unlimited number number of such wrong assumptions which a novice installer might make, I think that's asking a lot.

If they did, it seems likely to me that no-one would be able to understand the instructions, and few would read them.

I think you've started this thread with a rather extravagant and emotive claim, and it makes it hard to evaluate any more reasonable propositions which emerge, to do with improving the instructions to make things more convenient for the person doing the installation.
__________________
Andrew Troup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2012, 16:22   #40
Registered User
 
cburger's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nyack, NY
Boat: Westsail 32
Posts: 1,547
Images: 1
Re: Diesel Heater - Piss Poor Instructions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
Anyone who, in the words of the OP, is at risk of "killing (him or her) self with an improperly installed heater"
should in my view not be installing such a heater, regardless of the quality of the instructions.

Most of the sorts of installation faults which would cause a fire are not specific to a particular make or model of stove.

The company cannot be expected to provide an education sufficient to bring a randomly chosen member of the public up to the required level of competence in the wide variety of skills required, and then follow that with a comprehensive set of instructions covering all contingencies.

Here's an example of why that seems unreasonable to me:

If I understand you correctly, you seem to be taking Dickinson to task for your assumption that the fuel line had to be installed with multiple redundant bends, so as to hug the profile of the heater. Given the virtually unlimited number number of such wrong assumptions which a novice installer might make, I think that's asking a lot.

If they did, it seems likely to me that no-one would be able to understand the instructions, and few would read them.

I think you've started this thread with a rather extravagant and emotive claim, and it makes it hard to evaluate any more reasonable propositions which emerge, to do with improving the instructions to make things more convenient for the person doing the installation.
I stand by my original post claiming piss poor instructions regarding the Dickinson heater as well as information that is contradictory to the manual from the company when I have had to speak with the customer suport people over the phone.

I am not going to justify your remark regarding my experience or lack of same by providing a list of my credentials.
__________________

__________________
"All men are created equal, some are just more equal than others"
cburger is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
diesel

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:08.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.