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Old 28-10-2013, 09:04   #1
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Dickenson Newport "A permanently open fresh air inlet MUST be installed or dedicated"

Does an dorade count as a "A permanently open fresh air inlet" for a Newport Diesel Heater?

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Old 28-10-2013, 11:10   #2
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Re: Dickenson Newport "A permanently open fresh air inlet MUST be installed or dedica

A dorade vent will probably be adequate if you are just talking replacing O2 used in combustion. These stoves aren't usually CO risks though a CO detector is a really really good idea to install.

Another issue with these heaters is momentary negative pressure inside the boat from gusty winds outside. The flow of air in the chimney reverses and sends carbon laden air into the cabin creating a mess. The 'cure' is to supply a balancing source of air at the burner. Typically a second flue of equal diameter as the chimney flue through the deck to somewhere near the stove burner. The length of the chimney flue is some what of a factor on whether the pressure balancing flue is needed. A short chimney run makes a balancing flue more necessary. Unfortunately, till you get the stove up and running, you won't know for certain whether you'll need a balancing flue. Haven't experienced a back flow with the boat in Hawaii but understand once is one too many occurrences.
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Old 28-10-2013, 12:44   #3
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Re: Dickenson Newport "A permanently open fresh air inlet MUST be installed or dedica

Well, I was trying to get a Refleks heater but they don't make a bulkhead one that supplies enough BTU for my vessel. So, I ended up buying a Dickinson Newport.

I did order a barometric flue to go with it - was a cheap add on.

Anyone with some hints on installation?
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Old 28-10-2013, 12:53   #4
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Re: Dickenson Newport "A permanently open fresh air inlet MUST be installed or dedica

I have dorades that work just fine for providing air for the Dickinson but as mentioned gusty winds can be a real problem. If you get a flameout burst of air down the stack the room quickly fills with smoke and diesel fumes. The Dickinson has a variable speed fan built in and should be running when it's gusty to maintain the draft. It's best to do without if it's really blowing.
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Old 28-10-2013, 16:00   #5
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Re: Dickenson Newport "A permanently open fresh air inlet MUST be installed or dedica

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboss View Post
Does an dorade count as a "A permanently open fresh air inlet" for a Newport Diesel Heater?

- z

Zboss,
I have been investigating diesel heaters and the Dickinson does require a special dedicated fresh air inlet. If you read the manual, this is clearly stated. It is not the same as using a dorade since the required vent must be attached to the unit with a pipe that insures an even and unrestricted air flow from outside the boat. The Refleks bulkhead unit 66MW, which you were considering, does not require a separate inlet vent from outside but draws air from the floor with a 70mm pipe from the base of the unit to the floor. The Refleks 66M floor mounted unit requires no inlet pipe and takes cold air from the floor. To prevent backdraft from windy conditions, they sell an "H" style chimney cap that eliminates that possibility and allows the unit to be sailed with the heater operating. I have chosen the Refleks 66M floor mounted unit as perfect for my 34 boat--similar in size to yours, since no external ducting for an air inlet is needed and no current draws for fans/motors. Simple, clean, efficient, gravity fed diesel with a great international reputation for simplicity and efficiency. Also, in regards to BTU's per sq. ft., unless you're venting into another area of the boat with additional ducting and an electrically driven fan motor, the only room you will heat will be the one that the unit has been mounted in. Therefore, calculating BTU's for heater size based upon the total square feet of your vessel would be overkill and misleading. These are a few of my thoughts based upon research of competing units. Hope you find this helpful.
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Old 28-10-2013, 17:51   #6
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Re: Dickenson Newport "A permanently open fresh air inlet MUST be installed or dedica

If you read the manual for a diesel Newport there is no special stove pipe just a 3" pipe and the standard deck pipe and somewhere an open vent (a dorade?) to allow outside air in to replace that which went up the pipe. There is a small 12v blower that may be used if draft is a problem at the moment.

One thing to consider, no matter how you calculate btu's is that heat rises and the floorboards will stay cold unless you can circulate the air. I tried ducting and an inline blower but that's an irritating waste of effort and you might as well put in a forced air system. A low draw fan above the heater, pointed at the stack seems to work ok. I've been using this unit for close to twenty years and my main complaint is the noise the Walbro pump makes, an irregular clicking. The advantage of using the electric pump is that I also use it to prime the Yanmar.

What I really like about the Newport is the cheery little flame in the window. Again if you read the manual it says to light a piece of tissue and toss it in the puddle you let in to light it. That tissue leaves ash behind that will need clean up later. Although I don't endorse it, my solution for lighting is a bit of alcohol squirted in with the bottle I used to use to light the diesel oven. Never try that when it's hot if you value your eyebrows!
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Old 28-10-2013, 18:07   #7
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Re: Dickenson Newport "A permanently open fresh air inlet MUST be installed or dedica

We love our diesel Dickenson Newport! When it is lit it's the most admired object on the boat by poor, cold, visiting sailors. It dries up the boat and it warms us most cheerily at anchor. We have had one for about twelve years now and while other boaters may differ here is how we operate it:

We start it with a squirt of alcohol (denatured or isopropanol) about half a turkey baster full then quickly light it with one of those Bic fire starters.

The heater doesn't have a dedicated vent. We do often leave one of the ports open nearest the heater. We can tell when the heater is starved for air when the flame isn't a nice lemon yellow or when it is sooting up the walls or glass in front. When the dorades are closed for passage we can tell that the heater needs more air.

Unless we are terribly cold during a passage we leave the heater off. It is one more thing to think about that we can do without while we are singlehanding on shifts.

We haven't had the "sooting up the cabin" problem but we pay attention to high winds and if the fire is getting blown around in the heater we will turn it off.

I should note that I have found the people at Dickenson to be very helpful with questions about installing, maintaining and operating the heater, fuel filter, and pump. I have no commercial interest in the company.
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Old 29-10-2013, 08:31   #8
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Re: Dickenson Newport "A permanently open fresh air inlet MUST be installed or dedica

If you read the manual for a diesel Newport there is no special stove pipe just a 3" pipe and the standard deck pipe and somewhere an open vent (a dorade?) to allow outside air in to replace that which went up the pipe. There is a small 12v blower that may be used if draft is a problem at the moment. Rocksculpter



Rocksculpter,

The first sentence on p. 5 on the diesel Newport manual states in bold case: "VERY IMPORTANT: UNRESTRICTED PERMANENT FRESH AIR INLET REQUIRED TO DRAW OUTSIDE AIR NEEDED FOR CORRECT OPERATION." An open port or cowl vent is neither unrestricted, nor permanent as it is continually affected by wind and the continually changing internal pressure of the vessel. It doesn't mean that the unit will not work, but it is not advised for "correct operation."
The very next paragraph under "Ventilation" reiterates the above statement and states that the unit should not be operated in an enclosed area without a "permanent fresh air inlet designed for the heater." I would suggest you read the manual as it contradicits your assertion.
Good luck and good sailing. www.dickinsonmarine.com/dheaters.php
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Old 29-10-2013, 09:10   #9
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Re: Dickenson Newport "A permanently open fresh air inlet MUST be installed or dedica

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Anyone with some hints on installation?

I recommend a small day tank in lieu of an electric pump to supply fuel. Silent and no need for power. I use an outboard motor "squeeze bulb" to fill the day tank. My day tank is a 1.25 gallon Sears riding lawnmower fuel tank. I fitted a second fuel shutoff valve between the main fuel tank and the squeeze bulb to ensure that the engine driven fuel pump does not "suck" fuel/air backwards to engine.

A fitting or flange to attach an air inlet hose or pipe does not exist on a Newport heater. If your dorade vent is not closable, this should meet the requirements of the installation manual. I believe the "UNRESTRICTED PERMANENT FRESH AIR INLET" requirement is to avoid a situation were someone inadvertently closes the inlet during heater operation.

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Old 29-10-2013, 09:22   #10
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Re: Dickenson Newport "A permanently open fresh air inlet MUST be installed or dedica

Our Dorade vents are "closable" but only by trudging up on deck, removing the dorade, and placing a fitting over the hole with a wrench. So, someone would have to go out of their way to do so.

I am confident I can heat all areas of the boat with this little heater because I use an oil filled heater while at dock that puts out the same BTU's and its placed at the stern of the vessel near the companionway. The bow of the boat is cooler but still warm. I think this is because our boat has such a thick hull (1.25 inches in some places) and is insulated along the hull above the waterline.

I was amazed at how cool it stayed during the heat of this last summer, even when buttoned up tight over the week. I would step down into the cabin and think that someone installed an air conditioner.

Quote:
The first sentence on p. 5 on the diesel Newport manual states in bold case: "VERY IMPORTANT: UNRESTRICTED PERMANENT FRESH AIR INLET REQUIRED TO DRAW OUTSIDE AIR NEEDED FOR CORRECT OPERATION." An open port or cowl vent is neither unrestricted, nor permanent as it is continually affected by wind and the continually changing internal pressure of the vessel. It doesn't mean that the unit will not work, but it is not advised for "correct operation."
The very next paragraph under "Ventilation" reiterates the above statement and states that the unit should not be operated in an enclosed area without a "permanent fresh air inlet designed for the heater."
It does say this... which is why I was asking.
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Old 29-10-2013, 09:43   #11
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Re: Dickenson Newport "A permanently open fresh air inlet MUST be installed or dedica

I have dickenson diesel. A bit finicky but when tuned works well. Kerosene is better than diesel and/or aviation jet fuel. They burn cleaner.

A couple of key points already mentioned.

1. Start with alcohol
2. Jet A or Kerosene burn cleaner
3. Turn the fan on to maintain draft at least when it is started up or windy outside.
4. Get a rheostat to adjust fan speed and this will tune the draft perfectly to the conditions which are dependent on fuel flow, how long the stove has been burning (how hot the combustion chamber is), the outside wind speed, and whether it is gusty.
5. A trick that is helpful is to get a stainless or galvanized bucket and cut the bottom with slits or channels to put around the outside chiminey pipe if it is gusty to act as a baffle that in combo with the fan will keep it from backdrafting as well as keep any soot from getting on deck---diesel is sootier than kerosene or Jet A.
6. Do not use when underway only hove to or at anchor. Get electric blankets and long underwear as well as stormgear to stay warm. The hove to when cooking and eating and fire the heater up to dry out.
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Old 30-10-2013, 08:09   #12
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Re: Dickenson Newport "A permanently open fresh air inlet MUST be installed or dedica

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I recommend a small day tank in lieu of an electric pump to supply fuel. Silent and no need for power. I use an outboard motor "squeeze bulb" to fill the day tank. My day tank is a 1.25 gallon Sears riding lawnmower fuel tank. I fitted a second fuel shutoff valve between the main fuel tank and the squeeze bulb to ensure that the engine driven fuel pump does not "suck" fuel/air backwards to engine.

Steve
Steve... is your squeeze bulb plumbed into the main diesel tank?
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Old 30-10-2013, 09:35   #13
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Re: Dickenson Newport "A permanently open fresh air inlet MUST be installed or dedica

My Newport has a built in fan control. I feed the unit with a Walbro pump. The clicking is just one of the boat noises that says all is well. Easy to light with Bic lighter with flex tip. Just stick it down by the puddle and off she goes. You do need to hurry up and insert the combustor though or you will get a face full of smoke. In winds over 25 kts it will blow back even with the fan on. I am looking at ways to improve the stack cap to mitigate that problem. If the unit is operating a hatch is open, no exceptions. I use a double wall stack to prevent third degree burns if someone touches the stack. Convection draws air into the bottom and exits at the top in a noticeable stream of hot air. It easily heats the entire boat. There is a learning curve regarding the air/fuel mixture to get a clean burn. Not for folks who require push button convenience.
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Old 30-10-2013, 10:10   #14
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Re: Dickenson Newport "A permanently open fresh air inlet MUST be installed or dedica

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Steve... is your squeeze bulb plumbed into the main diesel tank?
Yes. I used an unused fitting on the engine Racor filter.

I will stress the importance to not rely on the squeeze bulb's (flimzy) check valves to prevent the engines lift pump from drawing fuel (and eventually air) backwards out of the day tank. Just install a shut off valve near the squeeze bulb - keep it closed unless filling tank.

Another benefit to the small, see thru day tank is the ability have a predetermined amount of fuel that will be consumed at a desired time. Maybe useful for the pirate types who drink themselves into a stupor prior to retireing?

Steve
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Old 30-10-2013, 10:45   #15
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Re: Dickenson Newport "A permanently open fresh air inlet MUST be installed or dedica

Ah I love legalese. The sentence below is to protect the company in case you forget to open a port or hatch and die from o2 exhaustion. It does not effect the operation of the unit if you use a non-permanent opening for fresh air. Nether the air nor the heater care which hole the air enters the boat.

"VERY IMPORTANT: UNRESTRICTED PERMANENT FRESH AIR INLET REQUIRED TO DRAW OUTSIDE AIR NEEDED FOR CORRECT OPERATION."

Now me, I believe that a dorade box is a permanent opening that complys with the intent of the instructions. But I'm an engineer and not a lawyer. A dorade vent is permanent. Yes it is possible to close it. But then its also possible to put duct tape over any hole and defeat the fresh air inlet. Having a permanent hole in the deck without a dorade box or other water trap really would not be safe for non-heating times.

BTW, the heaters that do have a built in fresh air duct, actually an outer duct around the inner flue, would be the best method as it provides a more balanced flow. But a boat with two or four dorade boxes would also comply.
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