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Old 28-08-2014, 12:50   #1
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Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

I am looking for a plan to secure a second anchor on my bow. I'm pleased with the snug fit of my Bruce and the single roller can accomodate a second rode, but you can see my CQR awkwardly tied as my secondary anchor. I'm looking forward to reading some suggested design plans. The plan could include a second roller, but secure storage for the secondary anchor is my requirement. I would also like the secure storage for the second anchor to be suitable for one of the "new generation" anchors.

This is the current mess:








I will not be extending my bow pulpit railing and, though I would consider a needed support from beneath the rub rail, I hope to avoid this complication by keeping everything as stout and short as possible. You'll notice that I have little room on deck, but ample space for attachment of stainless plate or pipe base fittings above the rub rail and in front of my running lights. I do expect that I'll need to move my runiing lights to the top center of my bow pulpit rail.

What are your thoughts for a practical design?
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Old 28-08-2014, 13:04   #2
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

It appears that your #1 rode passes between two (side by side) head stays. If the rode(s) could pass outboard of these stays, then I think the best solution would be to fabricate a new double roller that is nice and wide so as to separate the anchors.

No need for the roller to be extended any farther than current. When I built my roller, I made sure that a Bruce would fit just right. Later, when a Manson Supreme became available, I found that it fit also.

Steve

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Old 28-08-2014, 13:27   #3
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

Have you considered carrying the 2nd anchor nearer the stern or in a locker. Get the weight off the bow. Not sure how often you use your 2nd anchor, but we use ours in the order of once a year. I have it mounted on the stern (lightweight Fortress). I also have larger backup anchor that is deep in a locker, should I loose the main anchor. The bow weight just doesn't help your sailing at all.
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Old 28-08-2014, 13:30   #4
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

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It appears that your #1 rode passes between two (side by side) head stays. If the rode(s) could pass outboard of these stays, then I think the best solution would be to fabricate a new double roller that is nice and wide so as to separate the anchors. ..............Steve ...........
Steve, It's good to hear that the Mason has the same profile as the Bruce for placement and you're right about the two forestays outside the current anchor roller. I can see the thought of placing a longer axel through the center roller to accomodate new rollers to each side and giving me enough separation without moving the anchor davit forward; however, I'm guessing that these should not stand alone without support on the outside. 'something attached to the outside cheeks? I could have the anchors stowed at these outside rollers and still have the main lead for the primary deployed anchor at the center roller. Thanks for this idea! .... 'but I still want to hear of more choices.
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Old 28-08-2014, 23:06   #5
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

Hudson,

That is very crowded, and I can see why you don't like the way the CQR is set up. Does the design you want have to include the CQR for the second anchor, or the Bruce? There's a boat here in the marina with a double roller, double Bruce-copy set up, with one quite large Bruce, and one smaller one. He had the roller designed specially. Viewed from above, they appear nested. From ahead, you can see the scale of the larger one allows the smaller one within it. But I'm thinking you prefer to work with the anchors you've got?

Ann

FWIW, I have seen CQR's stowed on deck, in saddles made to accommodate them, but they do get in the way. One such one had the plow part sort of wrapped around the base of the shrouds towards away from the centerline. Another was next to toerail, back about 4 ft. from the bow, kind of curled by a stanchion.
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Old 29-08-2014, 06:19   #6
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

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Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
Have you considered carrying the 2nd anchor nearer the stern or in a locker. Get the weight off the bow. Not sure how often you use your 2nd anchor, but we use ours in the order of once a year. I have it mounted on the stern (lightweight Fortress). I also have larger backup anchor that is deep in a locker, should I loose the main anchor. The bow weight just doesn't help your sailing at all.
Thanks Paul, this is an important consideration. I do have a third anchor stored low and center within my main cabin. I'm fairly well balanced fore & aft and without excessive "hobby-horsing" now. I do have dinghy davits and an outboard on my stern (not on the dinghy offshore). I'll likely keep my secondary anchor near the bow. 'maybe with Ann's idea of deck storage; however, I'm still keeping the tandem bow davit plan alive.

I have seen a couple of set ups with one anchor channel above the other, but I was questioning the clearance of the bottom anchor stock when it turns over the roller.
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:37   #7
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

After considering the "nesting" plan from Ann T. Cate, with thoughts of one larger anchor resting in an upper tier, I made few rough sketches of an anchor davit bar bolted in four places at the vertical sides between my rub rail and deck. Please accept my weak drawing skills and that these attempts are not with any measurement or scale.







So, give me some opinions; potential problems; better plans; alterations...?

I would have a bail or securing pin at the forward roller and a short pedestal to lock the end of the shank on the deck, but the anchor would span these two points without other support.
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Old 02-09-2014, 11:01   #8
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

From your photos I cannot make out what windlass you have. If a vertical capstan, try to layout the two anchor rollers so that they are separated, radially, as at 11:00 and 12:00 o'clock, for example. If horizontal capstan, then perhaps the rollers might be separated to match that windlass's capstan/gypsy spacing.
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Old 02-09-2014, 11:01   #9
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson Force View Post
After considering the "nesting" plan from Ann T. Cate, with thoughts of one larger anchor resting in an upper tier, I made few rough sketches of an anchor davit bar bolted in four places at the vertical sides between my rub rail and deck. Please accept my weak drawing skills and that these attempts are not with any measurement or scale.







So, give me some opinions; potential problems; better plans; alterations...?

I would have a bail or securing pin at the forward roller and a short pedestal to lock the end of the shank on the deck, but the anchor would span these two points without other support.
Hudson...

Boy man... I think you're sketching skills have mine beat for sure.... Bravo!

I'm loving this, except the last picture makes me a bit uneasy... I could only be figured out with a mockup, but do you think your top tackle is obstructing access to the bottom anchor too much? What would you think about angling the top, say towards the forward starboard leg in drawing #2?

I think this whole visual could be handled by suspending your gear from the pulpit with some lines?

Maybe the original stacked thought works out great because of dimensions though???
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Old 02-09-2014, 11:19   #10
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

Thanks for the thoughts. I do believe I'll make a cardboard template and "marionette" the anchors about before I have anything permanent done. Here's my horizontal manual windlass.....



The chain gypsy is well above the current lead from my existing anchor and I expect it would accomodate the draw of the second higher anchor without any difficulty.
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Old 02-09-2014, 11:22   #11
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

Get a good new gen anchor to replace the Bruce. :>) Then a big fortress at the ready on a bracket at a stanchion. (The Fortress saved my 47 footer in a sudden 70+ blow once in this manner. I just tossed it over before my rudder hit the beach. Full throttle would not keep the boat in position when the main anchor pulled out.) Just a thought.
The double roller setup is always hard for sure. On the above mentioned 47 footer I had spent a lot of money making a second/double roller. But it was just too messy etc so opted out after doing it.
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Old 02-09-2014, 11:37   #12
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

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Get a good new gen anchor to replace the Bruce. :>) Then a big fortress at the ready on a bracket at a stanchion. ........................
Thanks for using the generic "new generation" anchor reference. I would hate to see another anchor battle sprout up here. I plan to keep the Bruce as a secondary anchor where it sits and put a "new gen" anchor cupped over it as my primary. I'll probably make use of HappyMDRsailor's plan to offset the higher roller. I might keep the rode of the upper anchor set in an "S" configuration to be deployed from the lower anchor davit when laying on this single anchor. I respect the Fortress, but I'm slow to accept the braket on the bow pulpit where it would catch things,- I'm particularly thinking of the sheets on my cruising chute during an outside gybe and I'm stingy with my foredeck space. Though, I'm used to accepting compromise and I hope to keep your advice on standby.
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Old 02-09-2014, 11:50   #13
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

In my 70 years of being around, living on and working on boats, I have never run across anything quite like what is shown in the sketches. Doesn't mean it won't work.
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Old 02-09-2014, 11:58   #14
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

Quote:
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Thanks for the thoughts. I do believe I'll make a cardboard template and "marionette" the anchors about before I have anything permanent done. Here's my horizontal manual windlass.....



The chain gypsy is well above the current lead from my existing anchor and I expect it would accomodate the draw of the second higher anchor without any difficulty.
Marionette is definitely what I meant by suspending from the pulpit...

Quote:
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Thanks for using the generic "new generation" anchor reference. I would hate to see another anchor battle sprout up here. I plan to keep the Bruce as a secondary anchor where it sits and put a "new gen" anchor cupped over it as my primary. I'll probably make use of HappyMDRsailor's plan to offset the higher roller. I might keep the rode of the upper anchor set in an "S" configuration to be deployed from the lower anchor davit when laying on this single anchor. I respect the Fortress, but I'm slow to accept the braket on the bow pulpit where it would catch things,- I'm particularly thinking of the sheets on my cruising chute during an outside gybe and I'm stingy with my foredeck space. Though, I'm used to accepting compromise and I hope to keep your advice on standby.
This was in the back of my mind when thinking of the space needed for a vertical stack... It DOES look like the gypsy is in a great position to accommodate the idea!
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Old 03-09-2014, 06:46   #15
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

Bruce Bingham's book, A Sailors Sketchbook, has many excellent ideas for this problem
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